Newbie here: help regarding 2 orchids (repotting and saving)

[Alex R]

Hi,

This is a long read so I'll appreciate anyone's time. I've done some general reading so please be gentle . I did follow general guidelines--although too late for what I'd like to admit--even though this post may not show that.

I'd like to ask some experts here some specific questions about 2 of my orchids, 1 which I really want to prevent from dying.

Regarding the first orchid, which looks quite healthy. Should it be repotted judging by the roots? The compost is about 2 years old.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p5s2psliob...204532-mic.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ehgr74ogz...205206-mic.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/23uw9ii0u6...205221-mic.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2rmklykoh...205237-mic.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d2w84jdjtd...205259-mic.jpg

The roots look very healthy to me and the orchid is now growing new leaves and roots. The clear plastic pot you see is 16cm (6.3") wide at the top.

In the past couple months it grew 4 new leaves (including the tiny little one a few days ago) and quite a few new roots. The same orchid back in February had about 27 flowers, it was a real beauty:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl338p6ypy...103032-mic.jpg

Regarding the second orchid. I fear it may be dying. It's my fault for not taking the time (new job, new house, etc). It had gone paler, and leaves had gone softer in the last months, and it recently lost 3 big and green leaves in just a few weeks, rapidly turning yellow and falling, and 2 more are now doing the same. The leaves were never firm, not even when it was new (it was a present) when it had flowers as they are usually sold, and they never really grew firmer.

Yesterday I repotted it into this pot, with fresh orchid compost:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xt9x8d2c30...205957-mic.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ssixh2s12b...210008-mic.jpg

The reason for repotting is that it overgrew the initial (tiny 3") pot to the point where it was not absorbing water anymore -- I found out too late I think, after noticing that when I watered it a few days ago, the previous water from 7 days ago (and possibly some from 14 days ago) was still there . I now suspect that the pot was always a bit too small for it given that all leaves were fairly soft in comparison to the first orchid.

The initial small plastic pot was inside an opaque ceramic one and I didn't notice; I only learned yesterday of the proper method to water these orchids, and I feel bad about it. When I took it out, I noticed the roots grew so long and so many that they completely filled the small plastic pot and had no moss to cling to. There has nebver been any compost, just moss; the moss yesterday was only in the centre, moisting only about 15% of the roots. Almost all the roots where white and shiny... but firm to the touch, not mushy, which was encouraging.

I took out the moss carefully, spread all roots apart, i.e. gently un-stitched them and allowed them to spread naturally, then repotted into a 16cm (6.3") pot which was about the diameter of the roots, although the roots are now NOT tightly pushing against the pot anymore ... a few of them are only touching the pot. Is that good or bad? If it's bad, do I need a smaller pot and repot it immediately?

The two green-ish leaves at the base may be going pale, although they were never really much greener than that ... they are, and always have been quite soft, instead of the normal firm. The one at the top is firmer, but not at all as firm as the leaves of the other (much bigger) orchid. I hope that having repotting it will help (the first orchid also had one of the bottom leaves go a bit pale once and then it miraculously recovered by itself).

I watered it a little (but not drenched) after repotting.

SO, now for questions:

- Is there anything I should do besides waiting and hoping it recovers?

- Any special tips regarding watering, placement, sunlight, etc?

- All my windows face south, so I have plenty of light (they say it'll be mostly cloudy these days though). Should it sit next to the window (it's cooler when it's not sunny) or more inside?

- Should I place the clear plastic pot inside an opaque pot or leave it out for a while to allow roots to get some light as well? -- in this regard, the first orchid in the clear pot has always sit inside an opaque pot but that is slightly larger than the clear plastic pot so light was getting inside; I imagine it's the reason why it's roots inside are also green and not white as in many pictures I've seen online.

- In general, what's the best placement for orchids? Direct sunlight or not?

Many thanks in advance,
Alex.

[Island Girl]

Ok, the second orchid: it's in too large of a pot... Don't need to go from a 3 inch to a 6.5 inch. I'd suggest going to a 4 inch, if it grew out of the 3 inch. Also, if you can't find a pot the correct size, you can easily make one. Find any plastic container, the right size (yogurt cups, pudding cups, drink cups, food containers... etc.) plastic is easy to cut holes in, I like to use a box cutter, or an "exacto knife" (**just be VERY careful when using these!! They can slice your hand right open!!** I'm thinking you could probably use leather work gloves, if you wanted to protect your hands, but I haven't tried that), also, heating up a metal screwdriver over a flame, until very hot, and melting holes into the container works well too (just do in a ventilated area). Cut holes in the bottom, as well as the sides. I do this to modify plastic pots that I want more holes in as well.

The first one (in the 6.5 inch pot), looks fine. Although, I would definitely repot it. It's been in that media for two years, so it is time. You might be able to put it back in the same sized pot (just clean it well, before using again... Just in case there's any nasties lurking in there) But, seeing the roots, it may need a slightly larger one (like a 7 inch, or a 7.5 inch). I will say, that if you don't mind watering a little more often (it will dry out faster, with less media), then it will be happy in that size pot, with little media, being that the pot would be mostly filled with roots. Remember, Phals grow as epiphytes, which means they grow on the side of a tree, with no media at all.. Roots exposed to the open air. So, being "root-bound" in a pot, actually makes them happy, because it means less media around the roots.

About watering, I wouldn't necessarily base a watering schedule on "once a week" (or similar) you will need to judge based on whether or not the media is dry. (but, remember that we want to water the roots, not the media) Phals like to have fairly consistent moisture... NOT wet, just moist/damp. But we want them to dry too, because it allows air to come in so the roots can breathe. Search for the "skewer method" of watering, this will help teach you when to water. I'd also suggest to pick up the pot, feel it's weight, both when it's completely dry, and again, just after watering. This way, you will learn to know when to water by the weight of the pots. Also, with clear pots, you will be able to see the roots - when they are all silver, it's time to water... When green, wait until dry. (Although, some roots, that have been exposed to light, are always green... But for the most part, they will be silver (dry), or green only when moist)

I'd leave them out of the decorative pots, just because it allows more air to circulate. (this is just my opinion, tho)

They do not need/want direct sunlight... You can shade them with a sheer curtain if you have one. Or, back them up until there's no direct sun on them.... If they get early morning sunlight (say, anytime from dawn, to 9-10am that should be fine, provided its not too strong... Since you are so far north, I don't think that would be a problem, but a more experienced person is free to correct me!) or late afternoon, is fine too (like after 4-5pm) especially this time of year.

And, last, but not least... to the OB!! We are very happy to have you join us!! This is a great place to learn, and share. Everybody here is so nice, and everyone loves, and is always willing to help one another. I'm sure you will enjoy it here, and hope you will stick around with all of us crazy orchid - addicts! But, just to warn you... This hobby can get very addicting!

One more thing, then I'll shut up Phal leaves won't recover from being floppy in this case (sometimes they will, but usually, it's gotta be a quick recovery, yours were probably floppy for too long.. Before you got it).

Another tip: growing orchids takes alot of patience... I'm still working on that part... So, I'll have to get back to you on that! Lol

[kindrag23]

^@IslandGirl, she is correct a 1,000% very sound advice. Yeah patience can't help ya there. lol.

[Alex R]

Thanks so much for all thorough answers, and for the warm welcome! It does seem like a nice place, as is usually the case with people who take care of living creatures ... or zombies like some are labelling plants . I have seen the "highly addictive" warning on other forums, so I can only brace myself I guess.

Regarding the 2nd orchid and the size of the pot, I realize I gave misleading measurements. The 16cm (6.3") is the top external diameter which has a margin sticking out; The pot, as you can see, is decreasing in diameter from top to bottom; plus, the compost/media only starts about 1" lower.

The internal diameter at the top of the compost/media is about 5" and decreases to 3.7" at the bottom. Previously, they were in a 2.5" (bottom) to 3" (top) internal diameter pot - and utterly crammed yesterday.

Right now, most roots are in the 4.5" diameter region... is that still too large? Should the diameter of the pot, in general, be so that I can see many roots touching the pot (like in the 1st orchid)? Right now almost none do that for the repotted (2nd) orchid.

Sad to hear that leaf firmness is unlikely to happen with this orchid. I take it that the less green colour of the bottom leaves is not a big concern. I hope this orchid will survive.

Thanks for the skewer method tip as well.

Alex.

[Island Girl]

You're welcome! That size of pot should be ok, given you are careful with watering (it may be very slightly too big, but I am guessing, as I am not able to really tell). I'd say leave it in that pot, and be sure not to over water. (I don't remember if I said this in my previous post, but it is worth repeating, if I did, sorry lol) It is way better to under-water, than it is to over-water. You can rehydrate dry roots a lot easier than rescuing a root-rotted Phal. Just use the skewer method, til you get a handle on knowing when to water, and I think you'll be fine. And, if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask!

About seeing the roots from the outside, you don't have to, they are fine being more towards the inside. Just remember that the middle of the pot - the media in the center - will dry a lot slower than the outside.

You might lose bottom leaves after repotting, they shed lower leaves from time to time. This is natural. The new leaves (that have yet to grow) will be firm. So, even though they look kinda bad being floppy, eventually, your Phal will replace those leaves with new ones.

[Alex R]

All right, hopes are up now, many thanks!

This new pot also has some outer vertical holes on the sides, which I believe will help air circulate, but also dry faster. I'll keep an eye on all that and use the skewer method for watering. I've been a bit reluctant to use skewers until now, fearing I'd hurt the roots ...

[RandomGemini]

Also, regarding the first orchid, does it still have it's flower spike attached? If so, you can cut it. It doesn't need it anymore and when it blooms again, it will grow another one. Cutting it will allow it to put more energy into producing a new spike.

I REALLY want to reiterate Island Girl's warning about the exacto knives. I put one through my thumb two weeks ago cutting an orchid pot for my daughter's cattleya rescue. I earned myself a few stitches and I still have to keep the thing bandaged because finger injuries do not heal quickly. So, be VERY careful!

[Alex R]

Thanks. The 1st orchid does indeed have its flower spike attached. Are you sure I should cut it? The same spike has in the past grew, shed and re-grew a few spikes holding flowers, each out of small buds that can be seen on the spike (are they called buds? my flower-related vocabulary is very limited) ... there are still healthy looking buds on this spike, which is why I haven't cut it yet.

I did cut 2 other spikes which had begun to turn orange and dry, but this one has remained green and firm, and still has buds.

Regarding exacto knifes: I work with a lot of electronics where I use cutting pliers. I used the same cutting pliers for all my flower trimming work, instead of knifes ... I find it to be safer and more manoeuvrable, especially in awkward positions/angles.

Sorry to hear about your finger. I had a few finger cuts in the past and they are indeed really nasty.

[RandomGemini]

I was told, "If it's brown, cut it down. If it's green, don't be mean." It looks quite brown to me, which is an indicator that this particular spike is done. There are no healthy buds on this stalk. I think you're speaking of You won't see any more blooms from this one and you want it to grow a new one, so it's time to let go of the old one.

The spike is the stalk that is attached to the clear plastic stick you have in the pot in the very first image you linked to in your original post. I just want to be clear. I am only talking about cutting that stalk as close to the main stem (the part where the leaves overlap each other and form a sort of rope looking braid). You should not cut anything else.

[Alex R]

Yes, I understood what you meant. The spike has pretty much the same colour as it did for the past 1-2 years, including when it had child-spikes with flowers (see here, which was in February, fully blooming). The colors of the photo taken yesterday may be less accurate but it's actually a dark green, and greener in the upper half -- I used my phone to take the photos in weak indoors lighting.

The photo does not show them but I can see small buds on it. I can take a close-up photo tomorrow, in bright daylight.

The orchid had 2 other spikes from the main trunk which did indeed go pale, and which I did cut at the trunk. This remaining spike also had a few child-spikes that went pale, yet the spike itself did not.

I'm slightly reluctant to cut it ... I'll send a close-up photo tomorrow.

Thanks for all the tips and patience.