Worm tea for Orchids

[BradGC]

There's a place near me that sells bottles of the worm tea cheaply, I'm keen to give it a go.

[WaterWitchin]

A question, that's hopefully on topic here. If not, someone please let me know and I'll start a new thread.

What do ya'll think ... you microbiologists and rocket scientist type, please join in ...about using the water being siphoned from an aquarium during partial water changes? Would this be a whole different deal, or am I possibly spreading 'round non-beneficial bacteria to my beloved orchids? Yikes!

I've always used it on my other plants, but this makes me pause, think, and get neeeerrrrvous.

[catherinecarney]

For those who are worried about "bad" bacteria and fungi in worm tea (or turtle/aquarium water, which is what I use on my orchids), I have a comment: these plants don't live in sterile environments, not in the wild and not in our domestic settings, and healthy plants are capable of handling most of the pathogens in their environment. If they couldn't, they wouldn't survive. While I agree with sterilizing cutting tools and quarantine of new plants (the whole ounce of prevention thing) I would think that as long as the worms weren't fed anything carrying TMV or other known viruses the risk would be minimal and the benefits potentially substantial.

For those who are set against this, that's your choice, but please try to keep an open mind about it for the rest of us who want to try it rather than shutting us down just because you haven't done it.

Catherine

[Laserbeak]

I bought some tea and castings and think the tea will be great for the orchids. The castings I plan to use for mushrooms.

[Pitbull]

Hi,

Well I will toss my 2 cents worth in for how the worm farm works as I believe it was asked in an earlier post.

I have two worm farms. Mine are round stackable type and all I do is feed them any left over vegetable scraps, no more than they can consume in a few days. If you don't have any scraps you can use newspaper not the glossy stuff as long as you wet it a bit so the paper its all moist and lay on top of the castings. I also place a cut piece of shade cloth over all this. This is simply to help keep the castings moist, NOT wet. Steroids for worms is little bit of bran, if you are so inclined.

If you want to speed things up in your worm farm and produce heaps of worm tea put your scraps in a blender and blend to a paste. The worms consume this a lot faster and they get bigger and eat more and produce more tea.

I highly recommend your wife does not see you use the household blender I don't see the issue but apparently its an issue and cost me a new blender lol. Not going to argue with the wife

I have been known to visit the local green grocer and get a couple of boxes of lettuce leaves etc and make up containers of paste and kept that in the fridge. Highly recommend CLEARLY marking the containers or get a 2nd fridge .

I also use in limited amount, onion and citrus peel. No meats of any sorts should be used in your worm farm.

Basically how the worm farm works is, once one tray is full of castings I place a 2nd tray on top of the castings and start placing the scraps here and over time all the worms will travel up into the 2nd tray and the 2nd tray will fill with castings. I again place a 3rd tray on top and repeat the process. While all this is going on juice from the worms is flowing through the castings and into a bottle I have at the outlet of the base unit, this is concentrated worm tea and I break this down 9-1. Once you get 3 trays full I remove the bottom tray and place all the castings in a hessian bag or similar and suspend in a bucket of water about 20 litres and place the lid back on and leave for a week or so. You then have 20 litres of worm tea, I break this down 9-1 and then use on my garden. The casting can then be tossed throughout your garden. This tray can then be placed on top of your castings and you simply keep repeating.

I water all my garden plants including my veggies and they seem to like the stuff. My plants seem a lot healthier for its use and the only other fertiliser I use is seaweed solution on occasion.

I get heaps of veggies so cannot complain.

As for its benefit on orchids, sorry that's way outside my pay scale and other more experienced on here will have to answer that.

However I will be using worm tea on my orchids but at a very weak solution via my sprinkler system, only because I water all my other plants this way and my orchids are in the same areas. Hopefully there will be no sad outcomes, time will tell.

Sorry for the long post.

Brian

[Ray]

Originally Posted by DelawareJim

Finally, keep in mind that if you are using a synthetic fertilizer, the salts in the fertilizer will most likely kill the beneficial organisms you're trying to establish with the tea, so there will be no benefit to using it.

Get the hell off of that soapbox, Jim - it's my turn.

<soapbox>
The minerals used in fertilizers, whether "natural" (mined) or chemically derived (synthesized) will not automatically, in all cases, kill beneficial organisms. In fact, they can actually foster the growth of the population. (An example later). However, too much of them - i.e., too high of a concentration - certainly can, and can take the plant with it.

I work in the petrochemical industry, which includes exploration, drilling, mining, refining and so-on. When you work with oil, spills happen. One of the most effective ways of remediation is biological.

You've all heard of the "oil-eating super bacteria" that used to be dumped on spills. The problem is that those "superbugs" just die out. It turns out that if you emulsify a light oil (olive oil, to be precise) with a high-nitrogen (Oooohhh - chemical) fertilizer, and spray it on the spill, the indigenous bacteria population (which does eat oil), will start consuming the easy-to-digest olive oil, and sparked by the fertilizer, will explode in population growth. Then, when the olive oil supply dwindles, the bacteria have to switch to the heavier oil for food, and remediation is actively under way. We actually used that when assisting with the Exxon Valdez spill.
</soapbox>

Next?

[Orchid Whisperer]

Originally Posted by catherinecarney

For those who are worried about "bad" bacteria and fungi in worm tea (or turtle/aquarium water, which is what I use on my orchids), I have a comment: these plants don't live in sterile environments, not in the wild and not in our domestic settings, and healthy plants are capable of handling most of the pathogens in their environment. If they couldn't, they wouldn't survive. While I agree with sterilizing cutting tools and quarantine of new plants (the whole ounce of prevention thing) I would think that as long as the worms weren't fed anything carrying TMV or other known viruses the risk would be minimal and the benefits potentially substantial.

For those who are set against this, that's your choice, but please try to keep an open mind about it for the rest of us who want to try it rather than shutting us down just because you haven't done it.

Catherine

Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind, and no one is shutting anyone down. Since we are all keeping an open mind, please consider that there are, by some estimates, 150 types of vegetables, ornamentals, and weeds that can be infected by TMV.

The original poster said that he was not going to put plants in his composter, only vegetable peels. Well those peels are plant parts, of course, and can carry virus. The compost process will not kill viruses. Only high heat will do that.

I identified a risk, and indicated that I thought it was a bad idea. I've not changed my mind. Everyone is entitled to do what they want, we have the freedom to do so. If you try the worm tea, keep an eye out for the viral and bacterial disease symptoms, bear in mind the viral diseases can't be reversed.

[isurus79]

Like everyone else in this thread who has tried worm tea on their orchids, I didn't see any noticeable gain or loss in their growth. I had a stackable tray worm bin and I had plenty of juice flowing out of the mixture which eventually transitioned from a worm farm to a soldierfly farm, which seems to be all the rage now. I didn't add the soldierflies, they flew in on their own.

If you have ever pulled the juice out of the bottom of the trays, you know its fairly putrid and I doubt VERY much that any veggie viruses/bacteria could survive in that. In fact, that mixture is probably more toxic to humans that to plants. I would then put the juice into a gallon jug and shake it once a day or so. I'm guessing the juice in the bottom of my trays was anoxic, hence its smell. Once I put it in the gallon jug and shook it, the added oxygen would kill off the nasty bacteria and the mixture would lose all smell.

While I know people who swear by this for their veggies, I saw zero boost to my orchids. I've heard the juice is pretty strong and can burn plants if not mixed with water, so I would use it as an additive in my fertilizer mixture, not as a sole means of fertilization. Again, nothing substantial happened to the growth of my orchids.

Additionally, nothing negative happened to them. No rot, no bacterial infection, no viruses, no nothing. I used the tea for 2.5 years so when I moved apartments I threw the bins out. That's my unscientific and purely anecdotal contribution to this thread.

[catherinecarney]

Orchid whisperer--in theory the heat generated in a true compost pile is high enough to kill most pathogens. However, a vermiculture system won't do it (or you'd have dead worms and a really stinky mess), no arguments there. And yes, I do know that there are many, many carriers for TMV, the most common (besides tobacco) being solanaceae (tomatoes, potatoes, and their ilk), peppers, and so on. Not to mention all the other viral/bacterial/fungal stuff out there....And the things (especially viruses) are constantly mutating, so just because it's not a pathogen today doesn't mean it won't be tomorrow (the way scrapie jumped from sheep to cattle to other ungulates is a classic case although technically it's a prion and not a virus).

Here's the thing: we will NEVER eliminate viral/fungal/bacterial spores from the environment--for those who really want to be creeped out there's actually a constant "rain" of said spores from the air, all the time--no matter what precautions we take the risk for transmission is ALWAYS there to some extent (no matter how small), even if we go completely with boxed/bagged fertilizers, courtesy of the "spore rain." IMO, the risk of worm tea (or fish or turtle water) is completely acceptable given how negligible it is. YMMV, of course, and what's acceptable for me may not be for the next person.

Steve--yes, if you were getting a "rotten egg" smell from the liquid it was courtesy of hydrogen sulfide (a lovely potentially toxic compound BTW) as a result of anoxic conditions. There are viruses and bacteria that can survive in those conditions (some cyanobacteria actually grow quite well in anoxic or hypoxic conditions for example and produce a liver toxin as a byproduct of their metabolism), but I don't know if they would be pathogenic to our plants. I do know that plants that receive "enriched" tank water (courtesy of the fish and turtles) do grow better for me--stronger roots, greener leaves, and overall more vigorous growth. This is most marked with my citrus and edible figs, but noticeable on the rest of the houseplants and orchids as well.

I think the bottom line for all of us to remember is that there may be many, many different ways of growing these plants, and that systems/approaches that work for one individual aren't necessarily going to work for the next. Also, just because something has worked for decades doesn't meant that it should be set in stone or that there isn't a better way out there. If that were the case we would still be killing orchids by growing them in Victorian style "turkish baths." I've been impressed by the level of innovation by the members of this site as they find the best ways to grow the orchids in their care, and I hope that people continue to try new things, even if it sounds crazy at the time. You've helped me to think outside of the box, and my plants have benefitted.

Catherine

[Phal-lover]

Another quick point,

I have a little worm farm and make worm tea for my other plants. However, I DO NOT use it for orchids, as it has urea in it. Orchids don't get urea in the wild, thus it may damage them.