Another Sickly Phal - Orchid Board

RandomGemini · #1 09-05-2013, 04:48 PM

If anyone remembers my very first post here, they'll recall that my daughter purchased my first orchid for me. I decided it was an experiment to see if I could keep her orchids alive when she goes off to college and so far, that orchid is doing great!

The funny part of this story is that I went into my daughter's room today to ask her something and I saw this sad, sickly looking plant. I asked her "How often have you been fertilizing?" She said, "Every two weeks." The next question, "How often have you been watering it?" The roots were wrinkled and super dehydrated and the leaves are turning yellow and going limp so I knew the answer was "Not often enough."

So here I am… getting all orchid crazy because she's going to move out soon and is going to leave me to take care of her orchids and her birds and her fish (which I really don't mind at all, but the irony of this is not failing to amuse me, hence the very long story here) and there she is with this sad, sickly, decrepit looking phal!

Needless to say, I took it from her.

So my questions: Is this just dehydration, or is this sunburn as well? Also, why is there a gross looking white spot on one of the blooms? Finally, that split in the crown looks ominous to me. I don't like it.

The plant is currently in bloom, planted in moss and I found a tiny white spider making a happy little web in its leaves when I took it to my potting area for watering. I would like to repot it because I am assuming that its media currently has cooties in it. I have it isolated from my other plants for the time being and have moved it to a dimmer room, because I was concerned about sunburn.

Thanks for your help orchid board! Love you fine folks!

Bill U. · #2 09-06-2013, 12:35 AM

A sad beginning, but happy that you are trying to take care of it correctly!

As far as I can tell, the leaves are suffering from both dehydration and sunburn. Of course, being dehydrated, increased the risk of sunburn as well. I have had some of those "white spots" develop on some of my phal blooms in the past and I think that is where they have started to get an isolated case of sunburn themselves- when I had them, it occurred everywhere there was a large drop of water (from my misting) and then got intense light, leading to isolated sunburn patterns.

What I would do from here- I think that you are doing a good job with the rehab with the slightly darker room. After 2 weeks or so, slowly reacclimate it to higher-light to help avoid sunburn. Of course a regular watering regimen will help with the dehydration.

For the sunburned spots, you can just leave them unless you see that they start to spread, in which case, you would want to cut the affected areas out.

It's hard to tell the status of the growing media, but if the bark is still firm and does not smell horribly like soil or rot, you may be okay with it. If you don't feel comfortable leaving it in the current media, you can change it out- that's personal preference.

Let us know how it goes!

Island Girl · #3 09-06-2013, 02:25 AM

^+1 I agree, also, I would recommend a repot, you said its in moss? The top of the media looks dark inside that pot, so if it's as dark as it looks, then the moss needs to go (and replace with either new moss, or new bark)... Do it as gently as possible, so it doesn't feel distressed... It will get along better that way (being this late in the year, when growth slows, you don't want to disrupt it any more than necessary... It could potentially set it back, but it needs new media... & Sometimes they show you how happy they are when they get new media!)

...The "split in the crown" I'm guessing that you are referring to the split in the part of the leaf where its joined to the stem, down by the bottom leaves, where the roots have grown from (far below the 'crown', where the new leaves grow from). That split has dried (the tan color shows this) and it should be fine... I usually see something similar with mine, where roots grow from &/or the leaves are heavy, or mechanical damage from dropping it (or the wind blows it off a shelf), and that part of the leaf gives way. I hope I have explained this well enough? I don't see anything else that looks like a split in your pic, so I hope I understood what you meant... Good Luck! I think you are on the right track!

Lol, I appreciate the irony too!

RandomGemini · #4 09-06-2013, 01:17 PM

It is potted in moss. The daughter likes hers potted in moss on the theory that she won't have to water as often. Which is how we ended up with this sickly looking plant in the first place.

Thankfully, there is a clear pot inside that ceramic pot, so I can lift the orchid out and look at it. The moss does look very dark on top, that's because it's green on top. It looks like algae has grown on the moss or something. The bottom of the moss is a light brown in color. The roots look great now. I gave it a 30 minute soak in some lukewarm water the other day and they've popped back to a healthy color.

Yes, Island Girl, you got exactly what I was talking about. I'm still new at orchid keeping, so I just wanted to be sure that was ok. My other phals don't look like that so I wanted to be sure! I need to go find a map of orchid anatomy, clearly.

Island Girl · #5 09-06-2013, 02:52 PM

^thats the nice thing about underwatering - given you catch it in time - the phal can rebound nicely! Now, overwatering, is a whole 'nother story!

Lol, it took me awhile to learn the "anatomy" (

) that I know... and I'm sure it's nowhere near being correct!

...but, I guess the terms I use, are more or less the ones that everyone uses on the OB, so maybe not too bad? Lol

If you are going to give this phal back to your daughter, I would suggest for you to replace the moss, with fresh New Zealand sphag moss... (a good, easy to get, brand is Zoo Med New Zealand Sphagnum Moss, price ain't too bad either, and you can find it at Petsmart/Petco, comes in a dried, packed brick... That's what I use most of the time). The phal would be very happy with the change! Trust me

They tend to react well when they're coming from old, moldy, algae-y moss, into nice fresh, new moss, and (as long as they haven't gone dormant, because of lower winter-time temps), they start growing roots & leaves like crazy... Or at least most of the time

Don't be scared of moss, as long as you don't pack too too tight (not like how tight it is with NOID's from big box stores, but, it needs to be tight enough to prevent the orchid from falling out, you really (esp. in this case - where your daughter doesn't want to water often) should have it packed in there tight enough to pick up the phal by its leaves, and the pot come with it... That way, (at least, theoretically) she could prob go almost 2weeks (*totally depends on y'all conditions*, tho) btwn watering... It will also hold onto fert better, so she could get away with using it a little less often, although she should try to make sure the moss is just barely damp before fertilizing, (as opposed to crispy-dry), b/c there will be less of a chance of fert burn.

Here's a good article on use of sphag. (the only thing I'd tell u to ignore, *if this orchid goes back to your daughter, in this case, is to actually pack/pot it in as tightly as I mentioned above... Which he actually recommends against, & normally yes, but he waters often, & your daughter won't.). As he mentioned, about larger pots, follow that advice, the bigger the pot, the looser you'll want the moss (anything above 5in, basically), but def. try to get the phal in the smallest pot possible! Also, the way she grows this guy, she won't get tons of fast growth, without fertilizing it properly & everything, but this won't necessarily kill it either. (the article is also by someone who grows for (small-scale) commercial purposes, but the logic still applies, he is also forced into watering often, b/c of bad tap water -high in dissolved solids/salts/alkalinity, so has to flush the pots often to prevent buildup, which y'all don't have to worry about - altho, I do like for my plants to dry faster, so i can water more, if possible).

Remember that orchids grow one way in the wild, we have adapted our conditions and their requirements to make it convienient for ourselves, so it's not too too bad if your daughter only wants to water once every 2 wks

(yes, maybe she could improve on a couple things, but I could say that about myself too.

and besides, she's young, she should be out having fun, not tied down to her orchid.

lol (I say that at my age, having like 50 orchids! Oh the irony). There are many, many, many ways to grow and bloom a healthy 'chid!

Robert Bedard Horticulture : Growing Phalaenopsis in New Zealand Sphagnum

Geez, Omg, so sorry about the novel, I seem to be doing this a lot this week!

Hope I at least helped? :/

RandomGemini · #6 09-06-2013, 03:15 PM

Very helpful indeed!

I've already been given her mini phal, because it wasn't doing well in her room. My office window has blinds built in, so I can control the amount of light that comes in. Her mini was not doing well when she placed it with her other orchids, so it moved in with my minis. I love the mini phals. In fact, I could do an entire windowsill garden of nothing but mini phals and be happy with that.

I expect I will grow this orchid in the dining room, so she can enjoy it, but also so I can keep an eye on it and it will get moved into my watering routine.

Would it be possible to remove some of the moss from this container, just the green stuff, and loosen the older media up to get a bit more air flow in there, then just leave it until the blooms drop? Or would that create just as much stress as repotting? I don't want to stress it. I want to be as gentle with the poor thing as I can.

Island Girl · #7 09-06-2013, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandomGemini

Would it be possible to remove some of the moss from this container, just the green stuff, and loosen the older media up to get a bit more air flow in there, then just leave it until the blooms drop? Or would that create just as much stress as repotting? I don't want to stress it. I want to be as gentle with the poor thing as I can.

Yes, that would be perfectly fine, I've done that myself before. In fact, with Phals, a lot of the time, you can usually do a complete repot while they're in bloom. Although, if this one is a little stressed, then I would just do as you suggested above, and wait for the blooming to finish, it looks like its healthy enough to finish flowering, so I'd just wait to repot when it's done. (if it were stressed from overwatering, and had root rot, that would be different, you'd want to repot now, and possibly lose the blooms). But, you're all good!

Bud · #8 09-06-2013, 04:15 PM

You are given good advice by the two members....your grow zone demands that you repot in Phalaenopsis media mix....sphag moss will give you inconstant moisture and humidity unless you have mastered the 'skewer method' which I myself find very hard and unreliable....the center of the sphag area can remain wet when the top is crunchy dry....
I also repot Phalaenopsis even in bloom especially when I first get it from outside my environment (I need to check the roots no matter what)
Follow the Phal culture and trust your instincts....your grow zone and environment must help you maintain watering and fertilizer regimen for all your plants....the plant in your picture has already adjusted to your environment that even how many abuse it takes it is still surviving....I would not worry much as I saw your pictures....you are going to succeed in caring for your orchids because according to what you have written so far: I find that you have good instincts to grow and care for orchids.

Island Girl · #9 09-07-2013, 12:52 PM

Yes Bud, you're right, the only reason I recommended the sphag was if it was going back to her daughter... I should've mentioned also, that if you were to plant in spag, its a good idea to put packing pnuts in the center (the white kind). Sorry if there was any confusion. I agree that if you are keeping it, that you should pot it in whatever you are comfortable with (I just said spag based on the fact that her daughter only waters once every two weeks or so...)

As for spag, Bud, you might try watering with a spray bottle, instead of a watering can or faucet, when u have something planted in spag, that keeps it uniformly moist, and if you're careful, not ever wet. This has worked well for me.

RandomGemini · #10 09-07-2013, 01:11 PM

I don't know if it's going back to the daughter or not. I'll leave that to her. I've told her that I will save it if I can, but she'll have to do some more homework on how to care for her orchids properly because I won't save it a second time. Her other phal seems to be doing fine in the light she has it in, seems to be getting plenty of water. It could just be that this particular hybrid is more sensitive to higher light than her other one and we'll never know for sure because it's a noid phal from the hardware store.