Phal problems

[lornaheath]

OMG I bought a pretty flower. I had no idea that all this criteria went into maintaining it and stuff like that. My Goodness that lot is a lot to take in.

I am now leaning towards leaving mine in the window of which I only have one in my flat. If it is facing the wrong way there is naff all I can do about it. I got no choice in the matter.

Watering them when they are drying out and feeding between that from a bottle that says Orchid Food/Flower.

Beyond that I won't kill them with my singing, but I will talk to them caressingly when I tend them and when I enter the room each morning to greet them all.

I will pray for sun, but that is for me rather than for them (I'm a Sun Goddess) and I'll keep me fingers crossed and hope for results.

Wow!! Amazing. Is it all really necessary?

Lorna
x x x

[Salix]

Originally Posted by brooke

How long is your spike?

Perhaps your Phal is from species that keep their spikes for several years. This type usually only has one or two blooms per spike and the WOW factor occurs when you have multiple spikes blooming.

Brooke

My spikes are about 6-8 inches long. They have a tiny bud at the end, it doesn't die, but they never mature until the old flower dies.

[RosieC]

Originally Posted by Bobits

I am interested to see what king orchid has to say when all the required info is posted... I have had a similar issue with my Phal in that its bloomed several times for me but never more than 3-5 flowers per spike. When I bought it, it was in bloom with many more than that.... Awaiting the knowledge of my fellow orchid lovers :-)

One of the issues with plants is that the answer for one does not mean it's the answer for another. That's why we don't try and stop people asking questions that have been asked before as some forums do. Even if you've read the responses to other people it's easy to be unsure if the same applies to your problem, and even if you think it does it might not.

Is that the joy and the fun... or the pain and frustration of growing orchids

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by lornaheath

OMG I bought a pretty flower. I had no idea that all this criteria went into maintaining it and stuff like that. My Goodness that lot is a lot to take in.

I am now leaning towards leaving mine in the window of which I only have one in my flat. If it is facing the wrong way there is naff all I can do about it. I got no choice in the matter.

Watering them when they are drying out and feeding between that from a bottle that says Orchid Food/Flower.

Beyond that I won't kill them with my singing, but I will talk to them caressingly when I tend them and when I enter the room each morning to greet them all.

I will pray for sun, but that is for me rather than for them (I'm a Sun Goddess) and I'll keep me fingers crossed and hope for results.

Wow!! Amazing. Is it all really necessary?

Lorna
x x x

All those questions factor in when there are problems to diagnose, you get to be more advanced, or when you want a better understanding of your plant.

Think of it in terms of problem solving or trouble shooting.

[lornaheath]

Thank you Mister Philip.

You are all pretty amazingly helpful in here.

Lorna
x x x

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Q: What are the temperatures during the day and during the night?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: Day is 21 C (69.8 F); night is 21 C (69.8 F)

Re: Day and night temperature difference does not necessarily affect the blooming of Phals directly, but it does affect the plant's opening and closing of their leaf pores to some degree.

A warmer day temperature compared to a cooler night temperature, along with the number of hours the orchid is exposed to light, will affect the opening and closing of their leaf pores, (called stomata).

This affects how the orchid breathes through its leaves.




Q: What are the seasonal temperatures throughout the year where you live?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: Does this matter? Plant is inside? I live in southern Ontario.

Re: I apologize, I should've been more specific... I realized this a bit late.

But, yes, in general, it does matter.

So...

If you grow the plant outdoors, the outdoors seasonal temperatures matter.

If you grow the plant indoors, the indoors seasonal temperatures matter.

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: November through February -- anywhere from minus 20 to plus 15; summer is July / August anywhere from 10 to 35... Lol -- that's Canada for you... Spring and fall are more temperate.

Re: I'm gonna go ahead and say that your indoors temperatures are not -20 C. Again, you gave me the correct answer for the question asked, but I should've thought about it more, so I do, again, apologize for not asking the right question.

I asked this question to find out if there was any kind of seasonal temperature variances that the orchid was experiencing.

I know that Phals are considered tropical orchids, and they rightfully are. Many wild type Phals did at one point originate from places such as Malaysia, Thailand, The Philippines, and Indonesia. But even in these locales, they experience a difference between day and night, as well as seasonal variances in temperature.

If your Phal is getting a seasonal variation in temperature between summer temperatures and fall temperatures, this difference between warm and cool, triggers blooms in Phals.



Q: How are the roots doing?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: ...Repotted in the fall and almost lost plant due to root loss before learning that new bark dries out faster so started using skewer method). Plant lost two leaves and now is looking better again. New root growth seen.

Re: I suspect that this was the biggest reason why your Phal failed to perform as well when blooming compared to when you first got it.

I think for you, your plant needs to make a full recovery from the root damage it received before it can put on a show again.




Q: How often do you fertilize?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: Once per month.

Q: What kind of fertilizer do you use?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: Schultz Orchid Food.

Q: What is the N-P-K ratio of the fertilizer you're using?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: 19-31-17

Q: What is the concentration of fertilizer you use?

Originally Posted by Bobits

A: 1/8 tsp to about I Litre water

Re: Based on what you told me about the fertilizer, I think the brand of fertilizer is fine for a Phalaenopsis or a Cattleya. Anything that doesn't feed as heavily as these groups of orchids and the brand of fertilizer is questionable.

Why?

Because if you look at the label, I'm willing to bet that one of the sources of nitrogen is from urea. Urea is a very stable source of nitrogen, but it needs to be broken down by microorganisms in soil in order for it to be of any use to most orchids/plants.

The best sources of nitrogen for plants in general, especially epiphytic orchids, are ammonium based nitrogen and nitrate based nitrogen.

This is one of several videos that shows the basics about the nitrogen cycle and how nitrogen is absorbed from soils.

Now I know that Phals are epiphytes, so learning about nitrogen in soil is useless and this video doesn't apply, right?

Yes and no.

I think it is more useful to understand the differences between ammonium, nitrate, and urea based nitrogen sources and how they are taken up by plants. It isn't about the soil, in this case.

This video distinguishes between the 3 sources of nitrogen and how it applies to a plant's ability to uptake nitrogen. And it should explain why ammonium and nitrate nitrogen is preferred to urea.

Nitrogen cycle in the soil - YouTube

Another thing about your fertilizing regimen is that I think you can fertilize twice a month. If your plant is working at full photosynthetic potential, then your plants will need the nutrients to function properly physiologically.

The N-P-K ratio looks about right for most epiphytic orchids.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What kind of Phal is it?

A: Sogo Yukidian, Green Apple, Purple Diamond, and Fuller Sunset are the variety names. All pretty basic.

I looked up all the Phals you listed.

Without the full names, I'm kinda getting a ballpark idea of what kinds of Phals you're talking about. I'm assuming that all the Phals on your list are multi-floral Phals.

I grow mostly species orchids, and the Phals I grow are species. Although I grow species Phals, many of the techniques and principles of growing a species Phal is very close to that for growing a hybrid.

Because I'm familiar with species Phals, I also have a good idea of the general genetic potential of the hybrids you mentioned.

How?

Because I recognize what kind of species Phal is in their heritage. I can see the traits of each hybrid and match them up to the species.

And, yes, you're correct in being concerned about your Phals just putting out a few blooms per spike. Like I said, they're multi-floral Phals, and they tend to be show stoppers in how many flowers they can produce per spike.

With this said...

Are all of these having the same problems, or is it just one of them that is?

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What are the day and night temperatures?

A: Day temperatures range in the upper 70's to low 80's, and night temperatures range from upper 50's to low/mid 60's.

If these are the temperatures they're experiencing in the growing area, then those day and night temperatures are fine.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What are the seasonal temperatures?

A: It gets in the upper 80's to mid 90's here in the day. we've had "cold" nights though, in the 60's this year. Mild last winter. Very mild.

If you've read the answer I gave to Bobits, then you'll know why I asked you this.

But in case you didn't...

Many Phals actually bloom seasonally. There are a few exceptions, but in most cases, they are seasonal bloomers.

There needs to be a significant drop in temperatures for about 1 week to prompt the plant to initiate growing a flower spike. By significant, I mean at least a 10 F drop.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What kind of light is the Phal receiving?

A: Sunlight, no grow lights. It's in an east facing window. Very bright light throughout most of the day. I'd estimate from about 6:45AM to 1 PM if you want that specific.

This is fine.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What amount of light is the orchid receiving?

A: I honestly have no way to measure.

No worries, I think you answered the question to a certain degree. I believe it might be receiving an adequate amount of light.

Just remember that the intensity of light diminishes with distance.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What is the humidity of the growing area?

A: High. 50-70% on average.

The humidity is adequate enough for the Phals, although, I'd probably say that the range you mentioned is more moderate to high, in my opinion. High to me, would be something in the 70% - 90% range.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: How often do you water?

A: Daily misting, weekly-every other week watering, depending on how the mediums dry out.

Since you are talking about different Phals in different potting media, it's difficult to pinpoint something to say in response to this watering regimen.

Although, the easiest thing to say is that you don't have to mist your Phals. I never mist my Phals, and they're fine.

I just give them a good watering.

Sometimes, on the warmer months I may have to water everyday to once every 2 days depending on the Phal.

In fact, I'd probably say that misting your Phals has the potential to cause the problem of crown rot. The way that people usually try to grow their Phals, (upright - which is actually the incorrect way to grow a Phal), misting could cause water droplets to dribble into the crown of the Phal and rot it out when the water doesn't dry out adequately.

Btw, the correct orientation of a Phal is sideways. They hang pendulously or perpendicularly off of trees; they don't grow upright.

This is how a Phal grows in the wild:

Phalaenopsis sumatrana | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Phalaenopsis equestris | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: How often do you fertilize?

A: Monthly/twice monthly.

Q: What is the concentration of fertilizer you use?

A: 1/4-1/8 strength, depending on frequency.

Phals are fairly heavy feeders. You can go full strength to 1/2 strength. 1/2 strength if you don't feel comfortable with full strength.

If possible try to stick to fertilizing twice monthly as much as you can. You don't have to be perfect, just get close enough, and you're fine.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What kind of fertilizer do you use?

A: Grow More Urea Free Orchid Food, water soluble.

Q: What is the N-P-K ratio of the fertilizer you're using?

A: 20-10-20

Good

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: What is the potting media being used to grow the Phal?

A: Coarsely ground lava rock and fir bark for one, sphagnum peat moss for another, and a few bare root.

Which one is being grown in which potting mix? And what kind of mix is the problem Phal being potted in?

I don't mean to sound crass, but I get the feeling you're asking about all your Phals.

I'd like to concentrate on the ones you're actually having problems with so that you can get a clear idea of what to do in case there are other problems that crop up with some of the other Phals.

If I talked about all your Phals, being that they're potted in different potting media, I'd be writing a book. And you can see how long this post is already. :/

I don't know how you're able to grow Phals bare root here in the US. That just doesn't seem like it'd work out in the long run. Maybe you mean something else... Could you post pics, please?

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: How are the roots doing?

A: I have checked for rot, and haven't found any. Most of the roots are bright green (if they're inside the media) and the surface ones are thick and silver (minus one of the bare root ones who is slightly shrivled. I think he's the Fuller sunset)

Ok

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: Do you have a pic you can post?

A:I do not. I will try and get some pics up if this detailed questionnaire doesn't turn up any results.

Good deal.

Originally Posted by Salix

Q: How long have you had this orchid for?

A: I've had them for 4 months.

Ok, it gives me a good idea of what the problem really is...

Originally Posted by Salix

Thank you all for taking the time to help me!
~Kitty

No problem.



The problem orchid that is blooming poorly is due to the fact that it needs time to recoup its energy resources to put forth better blooms. It most likely has been forced to bloom a few times already.

I'd just remove the spike and keep removing any new spikes that want to emerge until 1 - 2 years have passed, and the Phal has stored up enough energy to put out those massive displays of flowers that you have been anticipating.

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

See, between Bobits, and you (Salix), you guys have problems that present themselves in a similar fashion, but the answer to both your problems couldn't be further apart!

Hope this was a good lesson?

	Mistking Looking for a misting system? Look no further. Automated misting systems from MistKing are used by multitude of plant enthusiasts and are perfect for Orchids. Systems feature run dry pumps, ZipDrip valve, adjustable black nozzles, per second control! Automatically mist one growing shelf or a greenhouse full of Orchids. See MistKing testimonials

[Salix]

Thank you Philip, I do have my bare rooted Phals hanging sideways, I do know they're epiphytes. The misting is more to keep up the humidity in the area, because the room they're in is actually very, very dry. I did get them because they had a reputation for being heavy flowering, and even branching. I had diluted my fertilizer because I had been under the impression that not doing so could leave harmful salt deposits on the roots. And I should have been clear, I wasn't asking about one specific Phal, I'm having the same problem with all my Phals. I had been worried that the light was too low, though the foliage is light green on all of the Phals. I had also been worried that the heat was too much. I know Phals are winter bloomers, and do better with higher light and lower night temperatures. I'll try removing all the spikes, and increasing my fertilizer. Thanks again for your time.

	Mistking Looking for a misting system? Look no further. Automated misting systems from MistKing are used by multitude of plant enthusiasts and are perfect for Orchids. Systems feature run dry pumps, ZipDrip valve, adjustable black nozzles, per second control! Automatically mist one growing shelf or a greenhouse full of Orchids. See MistKing testimonials

[Joyorchid]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

I looked up all the Phals you listed.

Without the full names, I'm kinda getting a ballpark idea of what kinds of Phals you're talking about. I'm assuming that all the Phals on your list are multi-floral Phals.

I grow mostly species orchids, and the Phals I grow are species. Although I grow species Phals, many of the techniques and principles of growing a species Phal is very close to that for growing a hybrid.

Because I'm familiar with species Phals, I also have a good idea of the general genetic potential of the hybrids you mentioned.

How?

Because I recognize what kind of species Phal is in their heritage. I can see the traits of each hybrid and match them up to the species.

And, yes, you're correct in being concerned about your Phals just putting out a few blooms per spike. Like I said, they're multi-floral Phals, and they tend to be show stoppers in how many flowers they can produce per spike.

With this said...

Are all of these having the same problems, or is it just one of them that is?



If these are the temperatures they're experiencing in the growing area, then those day and night temperatures are fine.



If you've read the answer I gave to Bobits, then you'll know why I asked you this.

But in case you didn't...

Many Phals actually bloom seasonally. There are a few exceptions, but in most cases, they are seasonal bloomers.

There needs to be a significant drop in temperatures for about 1 week to prompt the plant to initiate growing a flower spike. By significant, I mean at least a 10 F drop.



This is fine.



No worries, I think you answered the question to a certain degree. I believe it might be receiving an adequate amount of light.

Just remember that the intensity of light diminishes with distance.



The humidity is adequate enough for the Phals, although, I'd probably say that the range you mentioned is more moderate to high, in my opinion. High to me, would be something in the 70% - 90% range.



Since you are talking about different Phals in different potting media, it's difficult to pinpoint something to say in response to this watering regimen.

Although, the easiest thing to say is that you don't have to mist your Phals. I never mist my Phals, and they're fine.

I just give them a good watering.

Sometimes, on the warmer months I may have to water everyday to once every 2 days depending on the Phal.

In fact, I'd probably say that misting your Phals has the potential to cause the problem of crown rot. The way that people usually try to grow their Phals, (upright - which is actually the incorrect way to grow a Phal), misting could cause water droplets to dribble into the crown of the Phal and rot it out when the water doesn't dry out adequately.

Btw, the correct orientation of a Phal is sideways. They hang pendulously or perpendicularly off of trees; they don't grow upright.

This is how a Phal grows in the wild:

Phalaenopsis sumatrana | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Phalaenopsis equestris | Flickr - Photo Sharing!



Phals are fairly heavy feeders. You can go full strength to 1/2 strength. 1/2 strength if you don't feel comfortable with full strength.

If possible try to stick to fertilizing twice monthly as much as you can. You don't have to be perfect, just get close enough, and you're fine.



Good



Which one is being grown in which potting mix? And what kind of mix is the problem Phal being potted in?

I don't mean to sound crass, but I get the feeling you're asking about all your Phals.

I'd like to concentrate on the ones you're actually having problems with so that you can get a clear idea of what to do in case there are other problems that crop up with some of the other Phals.

If I talked about all your Phals, being that they're potted in different potting media, I'd be writing a book. And you can see how long this post is already. :/

I don't know how you're able to grow Phals bare root here in the US. That just doesn't seem like it'd work out in the long run. Maybe you mean something else... Could you post pics, please?



Ok



Good deal.



Ok, it gives me a good idea of what the problem really is...



No problem.



The problem orchid that is blooming poorly is due to the fact that it needs time to recoup its energy resources to put forth better blooms. It most likely has been forced to bloom a few times already.

I'd just remove the spike and keep removing any new spikes that want to emerge until 1 - 2 years have passed, and the Phal has stored up enough energy to put out those massive displays of flowers that you have been anticipating.

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 PM ----------

See, between Bobits, and you (Salix), you guys have problems that present themselves in a similar fashion, but the answer to both your problems couldn't be further apart!

Hope this was a good lesson?

Philip! For being the best ever!

	Mistking Looking for a misting system? Look no further. Automated misting systems from MistKing are used by multitude of plant enthusiasts and are perfect for Orchids. Systems feature run dry pumps, ZipDrip valve, adjustable black nozzles, per second control! Automatically mist one growing shelf or a greenhouse full of Orchids. See MistKing testimonials

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Salix

Thank you Philip, I do have my bare rooted Phals hanging sideways, I do know they're epiphytes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are growing these "bare rooted" Phals mounted.

If they are on wooden plaques, then they are technically not being grown "bare root", they have been mounted onto the wood.

Originally Posted by Salix

The misting is more to keep up the humidity in the area, because the room they're in is actually very, very dry.

Is a humidifier out of the question? Since I don't know how your living arrangements are and what your growing area is like, I can't definitively just tell you to go out and get a humidifier, but I can definitely throw the idea out there.

Originally Posted by Salix

I did get them because they had a reputation for being heavy flowering, and even branching.

Originally Posted by Salix

I had diluted my fertilizer because I had been under the impression that not doing so could leave harmful salt deposits on the roots.

That really depends on the orchid really. For Phals, they're such heavy feeders, it wouldn't be too large of a concern. You can always flush the potting media out with RO/DI water every-now-and-then to prevent this problem from occurring. Also, like I said, you can do 1/2 strength instead of 1/4 to 1/8.

1/4 - 1/8 is much too low for a Phal.

Originally Posted by Salix

And I should have been clear, I wasn't asking about one specific Phal, I'm having the same problem with all my Phals.

Noted.

Originally Posted by Salix

I had been worried that the light was too low, though the foliage is light green on all of the Phals.

If lighting is a concern, try getting a relatively inexpensive light meter that reads in lux and footcandles.

Amazon.com: DT-1301 Digital LCD Lux Foot-candle Luxmeter Light Meter: Electronics

Originally Posted by Salix

I had also been worried that the heat was too much.

Heat is the least of your concerns with Phals.

They can tolerate heat up into the mid to high 90's F during the day with very little problems. That's how warm it can get in those southeastern Asian jungles. During summer nights it can stay around the low to mid 70's F at times.

Originally Posted by Salix

I know Phals are winter bloomers, and do better with higher light and lower night temperatures. I'll try removing all the spikes, and increasing my fertilizer. Thanks again for your time.

You're welcome.