My flasklings aren't happy

[Undergrounder]

Hi everyone, i recently bought a few flasks of a few different things and i've been trying to grow them in my bathroom - The biggest, brightest, and humidist room in the house. It's got high ceilings and a skylight and it really does look like its suited for low-light orchids.

I water whenever the top inch of the medium seems dry, which is usually 2 - 3 times a week. On hot dry days i tend to spray the plants with an ultrafine mister. I have a single tray that has a plastic lid like a seedling propagator that i used for the first few weeks after deflasking to keep the humidity up for all plants. Since then, some plants are in, some are out, some are in compots, others in individual seedling pots. I've been experimenting with a small range of media, but all of them grow in predominantly Perlite, some have 1 part Vermiculite and others have 1 part bark.

I recently added a little half-strength Hi-K fertiliser to their drink every other watering.

I've got some Phalaenopsis schilleriana, Den kingianum and Cymbidiums. All of these are suffering the same problems, although the Cyms to a lesser degree and the Phals moreso:

Lots of them have started to get soft lower leaves, turning brown then mushy then becoming a mould risk. I pick them off at this stage.

Others plants have developed brown tips and/or the leaves have started to look weak and curled or pleated as if they haven't had enough humidity.

In a few random plants that i pulled up, i noticed black sections, that may be root rot.

Can anyone help diagnose what is going on? I know my setup isn't perfect, for one fresh, flowing air isn't the best. I try to keep humidity high for the Phals, but at the same time i seem to be having rot problems.

Pics attached. Note the black root-tips and dead leaves on the Cymbdidium (PIC 2), the sickly looking Phal leaves and the black/white marks on the Phal roots (PIC 1). The last photo is the largest Phal flaskling in the collection for a comparison.

Thanks

[stonedragonfarms]

Welcome to the world of flasks...
It looks to me like most of your plants are suffering from a combination of lack of humidity and shock from new growing media. Remember that while they are in flask they are in a closed environment; they are subject to very high humidity and have a constant supply of nutrients in this system. When you remove them from the flask and replant them, you shock the entire plant--it is no longer in a "perfect" environment. That being said, I can only tell you what has worked for me in the past, hopefully someone who grows on regularly will chime in and correct/add on...
I usually rinse seedlings well when the come out of the flask to get off as much of the agar as possible. I give them a brief soak in warm water, and usually pot them up in community pots (compots), each having 10~15 seedlings. For media I usually use either long fibre sphagnum moss or rockwool mini cubes. Whichever I use, I usually fill the pot and insert the seedling gently into the premoistened media. I give the seedlings a misting of warm water and then seal them into gallon sized ziploc bags. They then go under lights on one of my growing racks in the house with 14~16hrs of light. Over the next 6 months or so I will gradually open the bags for longer periods of time to accustom the plants to decreases or controlled swings in relative humidity...I have found through trial and error that it takes the seedlings about 3 to 4 months to acclimate to the lower humidity levels that most of us encounter in the home; at the stage they are in, most seedlings are extrememly suceptible to rapid dessication if they are not kept in a very humid atmosphere. Feedings should be done at a reduced rate with any well balanced fertiliser. Most seedlings will be ready to be potted on (and out on the bench) about a year out of the flask.
Don't fret if you lose some of your little guys...we all learn through trial and error...I have killed a flask or two along the way...
Adam

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[minicatt]

Good comments Adam.
I also grow my seedlings in the house under lights, although i have success in the greenhouse as well. I have experimented with a number of mediums, from sphagnum to bark, to peat/perlite.
Using a humidity dome works well for me too. Then i gradually acclimate them to normal house temps and humidity.
Peter.

[kiki-do]

I know nothing about growing in flasks, not even sure what that is all about. What I do in the late fall...right now...is gather live sphagnum moss for use throughout the winter. I check it very carefully and my seedlings respond well to this medium. I mist frequently and make sure they don't dry out when they are this young and fragile. I think the live sphagnum has some good healing qualities that seem to help these seedlings survive. I also add this moss around an orchid that is having difficulty. I only do this on instinct, mind you, not by something I've read or been told by experts. So take this advise with a grain of salt, okay? It's just my own theory but it has had great results for me. kiki-do

[Undergrounder]

Thanks a lot for all your help everyone, i'll do my best to increase the relative humidity. I didn't realise they want to be humid for so long.

I like your ideas stone, I'll get some zip-lock bags and try sphagnum. I'm a bit worried about the black spots on the roots though, do you get a problem with rot if you enclose the bags? I still have three unopened flasks so i'll use your method on those. Is it vital to have that nice green sphagnum or is the prepackaged stuff OK? Unfortunately Kiki i have no source for proper sphag.

Another option is i have an old big fishtank downstairs. I could convert it into an orchidarium/grow area but at the moment all i have is a standard aquarium light (36", 30W). If i stick in a proper grow tube and maybe convert the filter to blow air around inside, maybe that could work?

It's all trial and error i suppose, but you really feel every little leaf that falls off with flasklings.

[Florida_guy_26]

What I did with my new seedlings after deflasking them was I took them and just threw them outside in a com-pot of NZ sphagnum moss and chilean sphagnum combo and let the beautiful florida weather do the rest. I know it sounds butt-kickin for tiny plants, but they grow fast and harden up in about 2 weeks max right out of flask- although my plants were large as they had been replated 5 to a flask of different kinds of phals. I would cut off all the rotted parts, spray with a fungicide and let the roots dry just a bit, then repot in sphagnum moss and keep them outside if possible and if not outside, then next to an open window to keep humidity up. If it is too hot or cold outside, then keep the plants close to an outside atmosphere because for some reason, orchids just like outdoor weather WAY better than indoor culture. My orchids literally sit in water in their sphagnum moss and they love it because they get water whenever they need it but for you, the media might be too wet or broken down- check further down in the media as 1 inch down may not be deep enough to see if rot is prominent or evident in pots. use a very diluted fungicide and spray after uprooting plants and dry the roots slightly but get all the infected or rotted parts off. Put the plants in sphagnum moss and keep them outside if possible and very wet as the plants seem to do better that way. ziplock bags are good, but i got mold if i left the bags inside for some reason- outside the environment is more hospitable to plants for some reason because there is humidity, even if it is low and there is less crap that will actually infect young tender plants.- also, the more you let them go and just forget about them, the better they seem to do. if anyone wants pics of my plants ill send them- all i have is lots of new growths and lots of very fat bulbs and blooming sized plants.

[Serge]

Hello!,

My English is not very good, but let's try it.

It is my first flask, i will tell you what i did, but i am not a expert.But i think the most important, is not to chock the babys.Slow transition is what i did.

-Live the flask inside near a window, for 3-4 days

-Break the flask and wash the babys in room temp.water

-wet the moss with water and root fertilizer

-For that flask, as you can see on the picture,i use three pots.One with 80% moss and 20%Canadian peat moss. One with 100% moss and the third one , fine bark with little moss.And also for a test, i put some babys in 100% Canadian peat moss. They do very well, so i don't think at that stage, the medium is important.

-Put a bed of moss in the plate

- separate the babys by size

-The 4 bigger one, i put each one in 2"clay pot

- The medium size one,i take little bit of moss around the root and push it in the bed.

-The tiny one , i put them directly on the moss and whit a little stick, i push the roots in the moss.

-put the pot with a plastic cover near the same windows.

-each day, i remove the cover for couple hours, after few days i remove cover all day and put it back at night

- After one week i put the pots outside at night with the cover, couple days later, all day long

-Warm and humid outside in the shade in Florida

-Natural air is the best, but slow transition.

-keep wet but not damp

-After 4 weeks now,my babys are in training.I let them dry more and more so they can develop there roots goods.

- I think the slow transition is very important.
No fertilizer shock,no temp. shock, No air shock...


Good luck
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[Des]

Undergrounder, I import my Cymbidium seedling from OZ which is a very expensive exercise ,so losing them is not an option ! Some important things to remember;
Sterilize the media before planting out -I use spore-kill and I pot into coco husk
Make sure that the media's PH is within tolerance- For cymbidiums that is 6 to 6.5
Sterilize the feed water - I use a combination of hydrogen peroxide and sporekill- Most of the fungal problems are waterborne
Do not feed your seedlings with water that is colder than 16 degrees C -You will put them into shock and they will lose leaves
Also ensure that the feed water is within the PH range
I spray the seedlings with a contact fungicide every two weeks - I use captab or dithane and I add a wetter or a sticker to the spray which ensures that the fungicide does not wash of too quickly
Cymbidiums need a lot of water especially during hot weather I water and spray mine at least 3 times a day during warm weather
I only start adding fertilizer at 3 weeks after deflasking and then at a very diluted ratr ( about 300 microsiemens)
I would suggest that you repot the Cymbidium seedlings ,before repotting this time soak them in a weak solution of hysan
Hope this helps -good luck
Des
Ps what is the names of the cymbids