Orchid abuse - WHY?

[The Orchid Boy]

Because of this thread, I just looked at my Phal NoID "Equestris" tag (Rocket Farms). The instructions are actually good. It mentions that this Phal is in water retaining moss....... If all tag instructions are as good as this one, its the big box "caretakers" and end growers that are abusing the chids.

The instructions on venus fly traps aren't good though. Most say "put in bright indirect light, no direct sun" & "keep moist", says nothing about pure water. VFT's need direct sun!

"Unless, 'reputable growers' want a casual customer to buy one orchid a year for a special occasion, their price range is not reflecting the reality of today's economy and what most of us can afford on a regular basis, IMHO"

Maybe you're not looking hard enough or in the right places. I can find plenty online, on ebay, and 1 local source.

Someone made the point that orchids used to cost a lot and were the hobby of the well-to-do since plants were too expensive for the mass market. I agree with the sentiment, but mericloning has not been a net positive development even though it allows cheaper plants for the market.

Even though mericloning has been technically possible since the 1920's, it really did not get off and running in the high volume orchid market until the 70's and 80's and really accelerated in the 90's with far eastern and domestic (US) producers. The orchid hobby has been in apparent decline ever since. Is that due to the presence of cheap plants? It's hard to ignore the correlation of the events. I say apparent decline because the core hobby is probably where it always was.

One reason I like and grow slipper orchids, they currently can't be cloned and mass produced.

I would argue that cheap plants have lead to the involvement of "hobbyists" who simply do not progress beyond beginner (by choice or ability, maybe both). They usually just move through the hobby and go on to other things.

I have a friend that is a simple hobbyist. None of her orchids are named, she just knows she has orchids has no idea what a phalaenopsis is... They are just fancy houseplants to her. There's nothing wrong with that. How many of us buy a peace lily or other common houseplant for a little living decor? Do we go crazy into peace lillies or whatever? As long as people like that care for their orchids and like their orchids, they can have just "fancy houseplants" if they want. It's a few less orchids in the trash.

[Stray59]

Also a good point! And as a child and adult who has learned to live with severe ADHD, I have "drifted" through many hobbies - but orchids always kept calling me back (dang it) -
I don't really see it as my job to convince anyone of anything, but to give pointers and pass on what I have learned - take it or leave it! Just because it is my opinion, does not make it right for anyone else but me!
Steve

[The Orchid Boy]

Originally Posted by Stray59

Also a good point! And as a child and adult who has learned to live with severe ADHD, I have "drifted" through many hobbies - but orchids always kept calling me back (dang it) -

Me too! I've tried several different hobbies but orchids just won't let go!

Originally Posted by Stray59

I don't really see it as my job to convince anyone of anything, but to give pointers and pass on what I have learned - take it or leave it! Just because it is my opinion, does not make it right for anyone else but me!
Steve

I agree. The one local vendor and I have very different opinions about fertilization and S/H. But we get along fine!

[The Orchid Kid]

Bottom line - the nursery must produce good, healthy orchids cheaply. They do this with whatever method is best (moss and humidity mainly). They do this well. The seller must sell as many as possible in as short a time for maximum return. They do this well.

Net result - good orchids get to a big store, the employees are not taught how to look after them, but enough sell before they rot for it to be good business. The average buyer gets their living 'cut flowers' for a few weeks then throw it out.

It would be nice for the big stores to care better for them, but they don't care, cos they need shelf space for the next lot anyway!

Fact is that the real hobbyists like us are the winners, cos WE know how to get the best from them, but can benefit from mass production bringing the price down and even more from past bloom, but still healthy sale stock.

My collection is a mixture of big store Phals, Paphs and Mitoniopsis. For a wider range I go to the specialists who are often the nursery and seller rolled into one, so can care for them for a long time until sale. In the end I have a few lovely cheap, but quite common plants, but also some lovely, more expensive but more unique ones from specialists. I love both.

There is no problem, no issue. Everyone is a winner actually! Right?

[ALToronto]

I don't have any problems with box store phals that are grown in Canada. I also don't have any problems with specialty catts that I bought from a very reputable local grower, also grown in Canada.

I think that the specialty orchids that people are having problems with are the ones imported from Asia, either bare root or in media, promptly resold by local 'growers' who have become nothing more than importers with just enough of a greenhouse to maintain some inventory. I don't know how long a plant has to reside in a country before it can be declared to be grown in that country, but I get the feeling that some greenhouses meet only the minimum requirements or even stretch the guidelines a little. And since our conditions are so different from the ones in Asia, the plants can take months to recover, if at all. In the meantime, during the transition period, they are vulnerable to all sorts of infections.

This is why I scrutinize the labels (not the name tags, but the growers' labels) and even check out the growers' websites on my phone before I pay full price for a plant. If I see statements such as 'we represent the world's best orchid producers', I walk away.

[Stray59]

Just spoke to a commercial grower in the area and asked him about whether the Box Store orchids helped or hurt him. He stated that he believed they helped him as they exposed a lot of people to orchids that otherwise would never have purchased one, and then they started coming to him to ask questions and inevitably they walked out with a new orchid under their arm. He welcomes the competition.
So, again it's all in your point of view.
Steve

[Wild Orchid]

Originally Posted by goodgollymissmolly

"Unless, 'reputable growers' want a casual customer to buy one orchid a year for a special occasion, their price range is not reflecting the reality of today's economy and what most of us can afford on a regular basis, IMHO"

It is not my place to tell you what to buy. That's entirely your business. Hopefully I can convince someone else not to follow your lead.

That said, my complain is that you buy this "cut flower" stuff and then continually complain about it's quality. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Buy what you wish. Just be aware of what it is expected to be and lay off complaining to us about it. We obviously can't help because you refuse to listen.

...I give a lot of basic "what's an orchid" seminars at orchid shows. The majority of those who sit down have their eyes glaze over in the first two minutes. They really do not want to think or learn anything (we are talking basic, basic 15 minute talks here). A few (maybe 10%) listen, ask questions, join or at least show up at a club meeting and go on to become what I call a knowledgable hobbyists.

Perhaps there should be two forums or at least groups, because obviously "us" - those "who do not want to think or learn anything", seriously??? - and "you" - an "expert"(?) - will never agree....

The question wasn't addressed to those who essentially holds... shall I say, a strong opposition to anything to do with the NoID orchids, and certainly wasn't a complaint to be resolved.

Thanks for taking time to reply, anyway.

[Stray59]

Just spoke to another grower in this area - Hilltop Orchids in Cloverdale, Indiana; I asked them the "help or hurt" question and Ms. Wells, wife of owner and operator, stated the the Big Box store were a definite help to them as she had customers come in all the time and ask "how do I revive this orchid that came from blah-de-blahs" box store. She stated that they had increased customer sales from this and that she had no problem with them, that Big Box stores definitely did not cut into their profit, but just the opposite, enhanced it.
She also stated the same belief that I hold - that the "just add ice" method was not a good practice, and that she wished they would stop the promotion of it because often the plants were not watered well enough and the ice shocked the roots.
So again, point of view, point of view, point of view-
Steve

[The Orchid Kid]

Interesting to know that Steve. I also do bonsai and it has the same thing with the big stores and the local specialists. I asked a local nurseryman the same a while back. Though he did not speak too kindly of the poor quality big store trees he did admit most people get into bonsai via that route. A £10 indoor elm is much less 'risk' when trying a hobby than a £500 acer!

I think it is similar with orchids. The mass produced ones help bring in enthusiasts. A £5 NoID is a great introduction to a wonderfully broad hobby and if you like it, you can then buy a few more specialist varieties and spend £20+. Without my little pinky from Ikea I would not even be here on this board!

[quiltergal]

Really folks? We're gonna do this yet again????