Phalaneopsis - new flowers wilting

[bluedevil]

Hi all,
I am a pretty new phal afficionado. I have bought 2 of phals in the local hardware store last year, both in bloom at the time (end of spring last year). They stayed in bloom until mid-fall, when the flowers dried and fell off. Then they started pushing new flowers, and somewhere in end of january/beginning of february this year new buds appeared.

Two of the buds dried out and fell off off the one of the phals, but another 3 opened on the same plant so far. On the other plant, it's just 5 green buds so far, not opening yet. On the 1st plant, three blooms exist: the first that opened is looking good, second opened a week later and is closing on itself, and the third that opened 3 days ago is also closing. What am I doing wrong here?
I didn't repot phals, mostly because I didn't know I had to, and when I read all about it they were already pushing buds, so I decided to wait until they finish.

They are on the northwest window: I only have windows to northwest and southeast, and they seem to like it pretty much here where they are - northwest. They have plenty of daylight throughout the day, with direct sunlight only in the evening/late afternoon, when the sun is setting in west, so they don't get burned. Even so, in the summer when the sun is the strongest, I put down the shades on window for a bit.

They are in draining pots (plastic ones with holes in the bottom) and I water them once a week: I have a bottle of water sitting there for a week, then come sunday I take a small pot, put the plant (with it's pot) in it, add water to the top, and leave it so soak for some 5 minutes. Then I take it out and set it on its' post, and repeat for other plant. Once a month I do it with the orchid-specific liquid added to the water (when flowering) and I do that once every two months when not flowering.

On the window I have a big long plastic container, like those for balcony flowers, which I filled up with that floating-stone balls, and I add water to those stones to keep them moist - the same time I water the plants. They are not soaked (the stones), I only add water to make them moist, so they could evaporate from below because I read orchids would appreciate that. But the plant pots sit on top of those stone-balls, so their pots can drain and are never submersed in water.

Leaves are thick, green, look healthy, it's just those flowes closing so fast after blooming that I'm worried about. The plant having its flowers closing is a bit crowded in a pot, I can see roots everywhere, the pot is full of roots, but as I said, I wanted to wait with repotting until blooming finishes. Maybe I should do it nevertheless?

Temps are, at the time, between 18-22 celsius (between 64-71 F) and since it's kitchen, it's pretty much like that throughout the year, except for the summer, when it
gets in ranges from 23-35 celsius (73-95 F). No direct cold air blowing, just occasional "cooling" of the room when I open the window a bit to change air (not the window near the orchids, the one I open is at the other end of the wall).

So, what am I doing wrong? I love those plants and I want them to bloom and feel happy. My wife had one phal before, she didn't care for it the right way (potted in no-drain pot and watered "when she remembered", sometimes even only once a month), and it lasted like that for 5 years before its roots rotted.
I've read too little moist will cause flowers to curl, but I dont think mine have too little water. Also, I spray leaves and top layer of aerial roots with water every morning, I use 1 spray (1 push on the handle) per leaf upside, one per downside, and some 5-6 sprays on the top of the pot/aerial roots, and then some more on the said floating-stones around the pot.

Any help would be greately appreciated!

[Ordphien]

Hmm.... maybe something is in the air?
A particular cleaning product you useor something?
I've recently had to move my fruit basket because it was causing major flower loss and bud blast.

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[bluedevil]

Hi, thanx for the input, but I doubt it's that - for the past 4-5 years (at least) I always use the same cleaning agent, and it never goes near my plants.

One other thing I learned on the net is that what I have for substrate is bark, as it was bought. Never changed. Maybe it's gone bad and needs a change afterall? I'm leaning towards repotting it today, with new orchid mixture - the only one I could find in a store here. They say (on this forum too) that old substrate will eventually go bad and keep too much moisture after som time, and I know my plants have the same substrate I bought them in a year ago. Maybe that's the problem?

[RosieC]

It's difficult to say what might be wrong, but checking the roots is a good idea, which you can do while repotting.

Phals can often suffer bud blast when moved from one environment to another, of if there is a change in the place they are in. A blast of chill air, a fan blowing cold air at them can be known to cause it, as well as more long term changes.

It also can be caused be ripe bananas near them, or things like incense.

Sorry, don't really know what it might be. I've only really had it happen when bringing new ones home, rather than with buds developed later in the same place it's flowering.

[camille1585]

Some Phals are just naturally very susceptible to blasting, and I've struggled to find a cause for blasting on those types of Phals. I do have one that I know will blast if I move it a few feet from its original spot. It's that sensitive.

Being in the kitchen, are they anywhere near ripening fruit? I've had a phal blast by leaving it next to some ripe bananas. Ethylene from the fruit triggers bud senenscence.

How is the ambient humidity level?

At night do you pull a curtain over the window? That will make the night temperature at the windowsill drop quite significantly if it's cold outside. Most of my budding orchids are not affected by this, but a few of them are. I know which plants are affected, and in the winter I move them elsewhere.

For repotting, bark based mixes are good for 2-3 years, depending on your watering habits, and also depending on the genera. Be careful of store bought mistures, they tend to have a lot of fine soil like particles in them. I either make my own mixes, or buy from growers.
Old substrate isn't directly linked to bud blasting. If the substrate is so degraded that the roots are in bad condition, then the plant may be too unhealthy to bloom well.

[bluedevil]

For now, the only roots I can see are through the plastic pot, and they're all green, almost like leafs, just a tad lighter green in color.
Although it is kitchen, there are no fruits around, since kitchen is connected to the dining room, through the dining room you enter the kitchen, adn the only fruits are in the dining room. It's some 5 meters air-distance from fruit to the orchids (about 16 feet). Kitchen is so small it's only good for cooking and washing dishes, too small for anything else.
No incense sticks (but thanx for that point, since I like to light them up occasionally, but since my wife is pregnant (almost at term now), I had to stop that habbit). So, no funny cleaning agents, no wind drafts, no incense sticks, and during the night I don't do a thing - the automatic heating thermometre is right next to phals, so I know exactly the temp they're on. It turns on heating when temp drops to 18 celsius (64 F) and heats until it is 20 celsius (68 F). But it rarely does that in the night, I think it never ever turned on this winter.
Phals are on the same spot since I bought them, on the same window, always doing well until now.

Only recent changes are these two:
1) I got the said pebbles (don't know the exact name) that I've put in the large container and I keep those moist, and phal pots are sitting on top of that, in order for water vapor to rise up and humidify the plants. Before, they were just plain sitting in their pots on the window board (on the inside, of course).
2) When I got this phal (that has problems now), her flowers were blue, Intense indigo blue. Later I discovered it was the water that the shop used, that had some kind of coloring inside, so that's why white flowers became blue. Following a friend's suggestion, I used liquid food coloring which I added to water for that plant, so it would again grow blue flowers. It did not, so I stopped that as soon as I saw first white flowers. That water that I used (colored one) I didn't change often: I would take a bottle, put in water and food coloring, and then submerse the plant in it, like I do now with normal water. But after that, I'd save the remaining water and keep it in fridge, then on saturday I'd take it out to get it to room temp, and on sunday I'd put the plant back in, adding just small amounts of water to fill the bottle up, since the bark obviously took some water.
Phal did OK like that for the whole year, and I only recently stopped using that water, since flowers were white, and now I just keep a bottle of water next to phals, for a week, use it for watering, spill the rest, add new water to bottle, and let it sit for a week until next watering cycle.

Apart from those two changes, everything else is like it was when the plants 1st arrived in my home, absolutely nothing changed. Just those humidifying pebbles (God knows if they do what I intended or not) and the change in water, which is now fresher.

Only thing I can think of is that the phal is too large for its pot. I've seen some videos on Youtube and when I compare those to mine, mine seems to be in a very crowded space. Looking through the pot (plastic), what I see is 80-90% of roots and 10-20% of bark. Compared to those Youtube videos, that seems crowded for me. Plus, there are quite a few air roots coming out on the top.

[camille1585]

I doubt it's a problem of being crowded in the pot. If anything, many orchids do much better when they're snug in their pots. Sounds like yours could do with a slightly larger pot, but I very highly doubt that it's the cause.

It seems that there's no obvious reason for the blasting, so it could be simply poor genetics that make it very sensitive. Not much you can do about that.
One other question: is the heating done by radiators under the windowsills? In a sensitive plant, the warmer and drier air moving up could be enough to trigger blast.

[bluedevil]

Hi Camille,
it's not hte heating: although heating indeed is done by hot water radiators, there is no radiator near plants. It's on the same wall, but on the other side, where is also the window I'm opening every now and then. So the room is heated, but phals are away from the heat source.

I have attached a poor painting of the environment here:
i47.tinypic.com/34pkoyd.png

So, the smaller space is the kitchen, with the BLUE part marking where my plants are. Larger place is dining room, with the RED marking where radiator and window are (that window I open, the one where the plants are I don't open), and ORANGE marks where some fruits are occasionally.


So, the forum thinks I shouldn't be repotting the phal since she's in the bloom? I would take pictures, but I can't attach them to the message nor can I post URLs

[camille1585]

You can't post links or images yet, that's normal. It's only allowed after 5 posts. (to help protect us from spammers). So one more post, and you're good. If your Phals roots are fine and healthy (sounds like they are), you can wait until after blooming to repot.

So I think the only solution to the blasting is to cross your fingers and hope for the best!!

[bluedevil]

Ah well, it's a waiting game then... Maybe it's this crazy weather we're having - 10 days ago we had some snow and below freezing in the night, then last 4 days it's very warm for this time of year (came to 18 celsius - 64F) at one point, and now they say it's gonna snow some again tomorrow. Maybe that's what's bothering it... I guess I'll wait and see how it goes. I can't see the inner roots, but I think I'll let the poor plant be for the moment and not pull it out to check, not until it's blooming...

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 PM ----------

Could it be this substrate, these "pebbles" from floating stone I've put under the plants? Could the moisture be too high now?
It's like I have 2 pots now: 1st one is filled to 3/4 with these pebbles, which I wet once a week, and then on top of that is the plant's pot. Once a week I add water to pebbles, and then moisten them each morning, as I moisten the leafs as well. I've read that since those pebbles can absorb much water, they will slowly evaporate that moisture in the air, which the phal likes.
I think (presumption) that even if I was to keep my plants above a water pool, as long as the roots are not submersed in water it wouldn't be too much moisture for them - they say phals like 70-90% of humidity, so I can't see how my setup would be too much. But then again, I've been wrong before. Too many times even...