"Strategies" for "rescuing" orchids from grocery stores/big box stores

[camille1585]

Nope it's not a sticky.

Now about this arguement (has been brought to the attention of the mods), different people see the issue of cheap Noids in different ways. It's fine to discuss and debate it, it's just better to show respect for other people than may hold a different view from yours. This discussion was ok, for the most part, but a little reminder to stay nice doesn't hurt.

[james mickelso]

I prefer "running discussion." That's how we learn.

[WhiteRabbit]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

Wow, everybody take a deep breath. No need for getting so testy. Seems like it's happening more and more on this board and I'm not sure why.
.

Deep breaths, everyone! And if you find yourself feeling "hot under the collar" over something someone has posted, take a few deep breaths, maybe move on to something else for a bit, before replying.

And please remember, every seemingly anonymous user name has a real person behind it.

[SlipperGirl]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

I prefer "running discussion." That's how we learn.

I like running discussion too

ladysoren did you get the answer you were looking for?

[AnonYMouse]

I feel there is some condescension being expressed on the board occasionally (but perhaps with more frequency lately). I may have even contributed to it unintentionally.

With that said, go for it. It should matter little what anyone says, your gratification is your reward. Ask for advice when you need it, ignore anything that even remotely seems sanctimonious.

[LadySoren]

Originally Posted by mothorchidgirl

I like running discussion too

ladysoren did you get the answer you were looking for?

I think so.
Part of what I wanted to know was basically how I should approach the store when wanting to rescue an orchid from them.
I guess I should just ask? haha. I don't want the store to get mad at me for asking. I don't see why they would though, but I've never tried.

The other part is, once you rescue it, how to care for it, but that has basically been answered here and elsewhere now that I've read some more threads. I don't know if I'd be able to keep one alive if it's really bad, but if I make sure there aren't any bugs, prune it (mainly roots), clean it, and repot it, I should have a chance. I hope.

And that's for people who want to rescue. No one is forcing anyone to do so and some find more worth in the effort than others.
Everything is made in China. Rah rah America.
(Jk jk)

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Cactuseed

The big box boyz do help to introduce the public to orchids (that is good, no?)

Yes, that's true. It is good. On that level I'd have to agree.

Originally Posted by Cactuseed

Orchids are pretty plants grown for profit just like corn get over it !

Yes, orchids are pretty plants grown for profit, I have to agree with that part of the statement as well. But when you added the portion of the statement, "just like corn - get over it!", that's where I differ in opinion.

The difference between producing corn and orchids is time. It takes corn approximately 1 yr to mature from seed and produce the corn we eat. Orchids, in general, can take up to 1 - 12 yrs to produce their 1st flowers when grown from seed, depending on what kind of orchid it is. This is irrespective of what country these orchids were produced in.

Cloning corn is also vastly different from cloning an orchid. Orchids offer different challenges, depending on the variety of orchid we're dealing with, when cloning them. The large majority of the mass produced Phal hybrids readily available in the big box stores are produced using a method called mericloning. Cloning corn is also something I imagine to be far less time consuming, compared to cloning an orchid. And yes, my bench/house space is precious, and I will collect orchids that I think are worth having around.

Given this basic info, the following should make some sort of sense...hopefully...

Now, here's my take on the whole letting these NOID hybrids go to the trash. I don't have a big problem with it, because I know that these plants were cloned en masse for the general public and were intended to be a disposable and dispensable item/product. Yes, it is a wasteful attitude and a bleeding shame that a living organism is being treated like it is worthless; but the way I see it is, for every 10 NOID Phals that died and/or got thrown in the trash, there will be 100 - 1,000 more of the same varieties where those came from because they were cloned by the millions. To me, it simply isn't worth it to save these mass produced hybrids. That's why I keep saying they don't need to be saved.

Do I wish that business practices even for these hybridized orchids changed to being less wasteful and geared towards their long term care - yes, but let's face it, as long as there's money to be made in it, it's not going to stop.

However, the problem I would have would be if any old species orchid were to start being thrown out just willy nilly. When you're talking about species orchids, because it is such a niche market, there aren't as many of them produced compared to the myriad of NOID hybrids or even some name hybrids. Many people treasure their species orchids far more than their hybrids, because a large majority of species orchids are relatively infrequently artificially produced, usually infrequently sold in massive quantities, and when they die, some of them can be extremely difficult to repurchase. On top of that, many species orchids are threatened by habitat destruction.

So as long as the attitudes between hybrids and species orchids stay separate, I don't see a huge problem with it.

I stress this distinction only because I want to make sure that people understand that there are different contexts for the topic in discussion. The most devastating thing that could happen is that a large population of people having a misunderstanding of orchids and just over generalizing to think that all orchids are dispensable - when that is not true at all.

Of course, if anyone still wants to save a big box store hybrid, it's fine.

[SlipperGirl]

Originally Posted by LadySoren

I think so.
Part of what I wanted to know was basically how I should approach the store when wanting to rescue an orchid from them.
I guess I should just ask? haha. I don't want the store to get mad at me for asking. I don't see why they would though, but I've never tried.

The other part is, once you rescue it, how to care for it, but that has basically been answered here and elsewhere now that I've read some more threads. I don't know if I'd be able to keep one alive if it's really bad, but if I make sure there aren't any bugs, prune it (mainly roots), clean it, and repot it, I should have a chance. I hope.

And that's for people who want to rescue. No one is forcing anyone to do so and some find more worth in the effort than others.
Everything is made in China. Rah rah America.
(Jk jk)

If there is something you need let us know we may go off into another running discussion but we should get to your question

[Rowangreen]

Kog, interesting to talk about the division. In some ways it does keep it simple if you've got unlabelled mass-produced clones on one side and specialist stuff on the other, and can make decisions accordingly. I do come up against some blurring of that though. For instance, one of my local supermarkets does have some plants with names (some rhs registered, some not...). The last few days I've been holding out from getting a Phal Sin Yuan Golden Beauty for £8.... Telling myself I have enough commercial phals, it will be in again.... etc etc but it's hard when it has a LABEL! There's also the local garden centre that has plants from a really annoying suplier. They do some absolutely fabulous plants: big bushy masdevalias, bright red, multi growth epidendrums, paphs: they have some complexes in right now, and there was one I reckon could have won on the showbench. All fabulous big, healthy plants a total steal at the price. If they had more label than 'Masdevalia' or 'Paphiopedelum' Sigh. I've been on the suppliers website: they talk about 'species' when they are talking about a hybrid etc. Obviously know how to produce a great plant for the consumer who wants something 'unusual', but still throwaway. Very tempting and frustrating!

Too many people in the UK have too much money to care about throwing things away, and too many people aspiring to imitate them, and always want the cheap way to do it.

[quiltergal]

Something that no one has addressed yet is the time and expense it takes a hybridizer before he/she realizes any profit from their new cross. It takes 6+ months for the seedpod to ripen. The grower is paying for heating, water, fertilizer etc. the entire time that seed pod is ripening. The ripe seed pod then gets sent to the lab or they may have their own lab where the seed is then sewn in flasks. Sometimes there is no viable seed in a pod. So there is 6+ months of expense on keeping that pod alive down the drain. If there is viable seed it can take 6 months to a year before the flasklings are ready to be compoted. Another 2-3 years before the plant matures and blooms. And then if the flower is ugly or just so so the grower may never recoup their expenses on it. When they get a really good one do they charge a lot? Well, seriously folks wouldn't you?

Don't think that these guys are in it for the money (except for maybe Normans). Making a living doing this is pretty sketchy at best. But they provide us with orchids that nobody else has. Look at the Nortons and the blue violacea they created. Perfect example. Was I willing to plop down $30 for an unbloomed seedling. You bet I was. It has since matured and bloomed and I couldn't be happier with it. Nobody in my society has one like it. There is significant financial risk in what these small growers do unlike the mega corps that crank out a bazillion clones of a single plant. Why shouldn't there be significant financial reward when they succeed?

If we continue to rely on mass produced clones pretty soon all our collections will look the same. Orchid shows won't be fun anymore because there won't be anything there that we haven't seen a million times before.