Encyclia polybulbon growth experiment

[catherinecarney]

Hi all--

Ok, some of you may remember that I bought an Encyclia polybulbon at my first orchid show in the middle of February. It was rather overgrowing the pot at time of purchase, so I knew I would be repotting in short order.

I found that it was actually 3 distinct plants when I took it out of the pot, and thought, hmmm...given my inexperience (and rather poor track record with orchids when I tried them over a decade ago), why not try different potting methods with each piece. Surely I can't mess up 3 different ways....

Piece #1 (largest) was potted into an unglazed clay saucer with bark similar in size to the original media. It has been residing above the fish tanks with humidity approx 45% and temps in the mid to upper 60's under moderate light. Bark is watered as it approaches dryness.

Piece #2 (middle) was placed onto the background of a paludarium where there is constant moisture available but the roots are not immersed--the hope is that it will grow along the wood tree branch overhanging the water. Temps in the 70's, bright light, and high humidity.

Piece #3 (little) was placed onto the cork background of another paludarium where the only moisture it receives is drips from the condensation on the glass canopy and general humidity in the air. Lower light conditions than #2, but still fairly bright.

After 2 weeks, here's what's going on:

Piece #1: No noticeable growth, pseudobulbs OK but not hugely plump (not shriveled, but....). No signs of fungus or rot.

Piece #2: New leads showing, pseudobulbs consistently plump and roots showing growth. Even with the high moisture and humidity and relatively stagnant air there are no signs of fungus or rot.

Piece #3: No noticeable plant growth, pseudobulbs consistently plummp and roots showing growth. No signs of fungus or rot.

If people are interested, I will continue to document what I see develop with these 3 little plants.

BTW, anyone else running a similar sort of growth comparison, perhaps with other species?

Catherine

[ronaldhanko]

I'm interested in hearing how they progess.

[catherinecarney]

Thanks Ron!

I'll try to post a weekly update.

Might try this with some other orchids as well when I get around to repotting. One of the catts I bought (Bc. Maikai Mayumi) has more than half of the rhizomes growing over the edge of the pot....If nothing else it gives me an excuse to try some things to find out what works better in my growing conditions.

Catherine

[tucker85]

Keep us posted on the results of your experiment. I like to experiment with my orchids also but I don't have enough room to do side by side testing. I just try something new and keep a journal about the results. I highly recommend writing down you findings. Years ago I tried things and later I totally forgot what the results were. Good luck.

[catherinecarney]

Thanks Tucker!

It seems to me that we could use a lot more "concrete" results reporting on growth conditions and such (maybe that's just the science background coming out). The generalizations about growing conditions (warm bright humid) drive me nuts--how warm, how bright, how humid? From a newby perspective, I sometimes can't help but wonder if the reason why orchids are perceived as being difficult is because we don't have good documentation about growing conditions.

I run into the same thing with killifish (thousands of species and locations of them, BTW, from incredibly diverse environments). General care info is available, but the information to fine tune the care, especially for the annual fish, is noticeably lacking (OK, their pools dry up each year, but how long does the water stand, what's the pH and temp of the water and how does it change as the pool dries, what's the temp of the mud where the eggs estivate until the rains come again, how long a dry period and what's the longest/shortest duration?).Typically any water/climate data we get for species in this family of fish is a "point in time"reference that only reflects the situation at the time the fish were collected--and sometimes doesn't even include water temps, let alone pH or the status of the water (still, running, open, shaded, plant growth, etc).

A couple of my killifish club members are avid amature naturalists, and they started rooting through all the journals and documentation they could get their hands on for climate data in the locations these fish come from. Turns out a lot of what we had assumed was wrong, and once we started to use the data in our fish rooms we were able to breed these things with more regularity. I suspect that the same is probably true for many orchids, and this site (and IOSPE) have been invaluable as I have tried to find out.

Catherine

[tucker85]

Originally Posted by catherinecarney

A couple of my killifish club members are avid amature naturalists, and they started rooting through all the journals and documentation they could get their hands on for climate data in the locations these fish come from. Turns out a lot of what we had assumed was wrong, and once we started to use the data in our fish rooms we were able to breed these things with more regularity. I suspect that the same is probably true for many orchids, and this site (and IOSPE) have been invaluable as I have tried to find out.

Catherine

You're absolutely right. In fact I'll give you a perfect example. I've grown an orchid for 4 years that is 3/4 C. walkeriana. Every year I got 4 or 6 very pretty flowers on it. Then I saw some pictures and a blog about a collector visiting the natural growing area of walkeriana. The blog said that they only grow on limestone cliffs. Just as an experiment I started giving the orchid a calcium/magnesium supplement twice a month to mimic the calcium from the limestone. Here's a picture of the orchid 6 months after I started the calcium. It had 22 flowers on it. I also think that networking is very important. It increases the chances of encountering someone who has some really valuable information about something you're interested in. Good luck with your orchids and fish.

[catherinecarney]

[QUOTE=tucker85;556034]In fact I'll give you a perfect example. I've grown an orchid for 4 years that is 3/4 C. walkeriana. Every year I got 4 or 6 very pretty flowers on it. Then I saw some pictures and a blog about a collector visiting the natural growing area of walkeriana. The blog said that they only grow on limestone cliffs. Just as an experiment I started giving the orchid a calcium/magnesium supplement twice a month to mimic the calcium from the limestone. Here's a picture of the orchid 6 months after I started the calcium. It had 22 flowers on it. I also think that networking is very important. It increases the chances of encountering someone who has some really valuable information about something you're interested in.

The example you gave is exactly the sort of information that it seems to me we need more of--the nuts and bolts stuff of how I kept it, bred it, bloomed it, etc. I don't know that I would have correlated the limestone cliff habitat with needing to supplement calcium in captivity (but I am rather dense at times) and the information you provided will make it easier for me (or anyone else for that matter) to grow walkeriana derived catts in the future.

Networking is one of the things that is so much easier to do now that we have internet--and OB has become an invaluable resource. The sorts of information people share here, the practical hints and tips, and the "been there, done that, it's OK" encouragement is crucial to helping newbs like me get started in the hobby.

BTW Tucker, gorgeous orchid!

Catherine

[PapaPhal]

Originally Posted by tucker85

Just as an experiment I started giving the orchid a calcium/magnesium supplement twice a month to mimic the calcium from the limestone. Here's a picture of the orchid 6 months after I started the calcium. It had 22 flowers on it.

[QUOTE=catherinecarney;556118
The example you gave is exactly the sort of information that it seems to me we need more of--the nuts and bolts stuff of how I kept it, bred it, bloomed it, etc. I don't know that I would have correlated the limestone cliff habitat with needing to supplement calcium in captivity (but I am rather dense at times) and the information you provided will make it easier for me (or anyone else for that matter) to grow walkeriana derived catts in the future.Catherine[/QUOTE]

Amen to the both of you. Being new to growing orchids I have experimented a little. A lot of my orchids are still recovering from it. I repotted phals in spagnum that was packed too tightly and then I over watered also. Not a good combination. My experience with experimenting with orchids is it is hard if one does not have a lot of orchids and a large growing space. I have a small collection of plants so it is hard to wait for the results. I would think it would be easier if while experimenting with one or two plants there are other that you can enjoy. Now before I experiment I do some research and also come to the OB to see if others may have already done the experiment for me. The information that can be obtained here can be quite beneficial.

[catherinecarney]

Hi Russ--

I have also learned to check OB routinely, and it seems like I learn something new every day. We have a great body of experienced growers who are willing to share their knowledge with us.

However, being a scientific sort (via my degree and my aquarium background), I find that I want more specific information, and that's one of the reasons I posted this E. polybulbon experiment. I didn't plan it when I got the orchid--just sort of fell into it when I went to repot and found it had 3 distinct pieces. I hope that what I am able to post about my experience with the plant (with as much specific info as possible) helps other people.

Catherine

[catherinecarney]

Weekly experiment update:

#1 (large piece potted in bark in a clay saucer): no new growth, pseudobulbs starting to shrivel even with watering before bark completely dry. No root or other rot. As a test, placed plastic bag over saucer to increase humidity (not sealed, still has airflow)and see if pseudobulbs recover.

#2 (medium piece in aquarium with constant moisture): roots green and growing, new leads continuing to develop, no signs of rot anywhere, pseudobulbs plump and green. Experiences the widest temps swings of the 3 pieces due to the cool room temps at night and warmth from overhead T-5 aquarium lights during the day.

#3 (smallest piece attached to cork background): slow root growth, roots green, psuedobulbs plump, no new lead growth. Temps swings due to room temp and aquarium light cycle not as dramatic as #2. Drier situation than #2, but higher humidity than #1. Doing better than #1 but not as well as #2.

So, we have some preliminary results, and a new experimental variable with the plastic bag over #1. Looks like the piece with the most humidity, light, and near constant dampness (although the roots are lying along the damp branch and not covered by sunstrate) and the widest temp swings (aka piece #2) is showing the best growth, followed by #3 (which has a less extreme version of #2's conditions). #1 is stuggling, and it will be interesting to see if the humidity tent (aka vented plastic bag) results in any change of condition.

Catherine