deflasking issue - did i do it wrong?

[Adrian]

Hi there
I wonder if you could help me out, if you can, with a deflasking problem/tragedy.
I received a flask of Dendrobium Farmeri just little over a week or so. I deflasked them into compots following standard procedure which involved washing off agar under tap, putting seedlings on newspaper to dry out a little and then placed them in a small plastic box with gravel at the bottom along with a plastic cover on top for humidity. I used mini orchid bark as the medium.
I then placed them in my shade house. The shade house has 70% on roof and 50% on walls and I try to keep humidity up as much as possible . They have steadily grown weaker and the leaves on quite a few have gone limp have flopped and look lifeless. We have been having hot, dry days here in Perth, West Australia so I am unsure if that was a problem.
If you require photos I can take some tonight and post tomorrow.
thank you very much
Adrian

[Bud]

I have never deflasked anything but I read from one of the members that he puts the seedlings in an old aquarium indoors near a bright window until a couple of weeks then he gradually puts the seedling out on the windowsill until it has established on the potting mix and then maybe you can bring it outdoors in a couple of months.....my instincts tell me that bringing the seedlings immediately outdoors after a comfortable flask environment is making the atmosphere in your grow zone suck the moisture out of them

[greengarden]

Where did you keep the flask prior to deflasking? I always deflask into the climate that the flask has been in(so if the flask has been inside the house the deflasked seedlings stay inside the house after deflasking for a period) I had lots of problems with rot deflasking into bark, it just didn't work for me for some reason. I now deflask into a mix of fine chopped coconut coir and perlite(both of which don't tend to get fungal issues). I deflask into individual pots unless they are tiny as it has meant I have been able to remove individuals that went bad without them affecting others. I keep them in the house for about 6 weeks before I transition them to outside. Once I have my greenhouse I will keep the flasks out the there for about four weeks before deflaking to allow them to acclimatise and then the seedlings will be deflasked into the greenhouse within a humidity tank.

Hope that helps.

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by greengarden

Where did you keep the flask prior to deflasking? I always deflask into the climate that the flask has been in(so if the flask has been inside the house the deflasked seedlings stay inside the house after deflasking for a period) I had lots of problems with rot deflasking into bark, it just didn't work for me for some reason. I now deflask into a mix of fine chopped coconut coir and perlite(both of which don't tend to get fungal issues). I deflask into individual pots unless they are tiny as it has meant I have been able to remove individuals that went bad without them affecting others. I keep them in the house for about 6 weeks before I transition them to outside. Once I have my greenhouse I will keep the flasks out the there for about four weeks before deflaking to allow them to acclimatise and then the seedlings will be deflasked into the greenhouse within a humidity tank.

Hope that helps.

Hi guys,
Thanks very much for your advice.
GreenGarden – I had the flask inside my house for about 5 days before I deflasked.
Should I change my media to perlite/coir or spaghnum moss? Is the coir that you use the same stuff you get in blocks at local Bunnings. How did you provide humidity for the seedlings inside the house? i.e. a humidity box etc?.. How would I know when the seedlings are ready to go outside into the shade house?
Some people say to dry the seedlings on newspaper before potting up. I left them on the newspaper only for a little while so they were still moist.
Anyway, I realise there must be 1000 ways of deflasking. I’ll chalk it up to experience and hopefully will fair better next time. In the meanwhile I’ll try and rescue what is left and bring them inside. Maybe they survive, maybe not.
Thanks very much for the advice for a beginner.
Cheers
Adrian

[greengarden]

I found the coir to be less likely to develop mould. Real sphagnum is probably good but the dead stuff in the bag from the nursery seems to get a blue green fuzzy mould on it where it meets the plants and I'm not a fan of it as a planting medium for seedlings as a result.

I used a large plastic tub, put sphagnum moss (or coir) in a layer on the bottom and then a plastic nursery tray on top for the pots to sit on. Once I loaded all the pots in I watered them with demineralised water and then covered the top in glad wrap and just left it alone and watched it for about a week. The humidity was high enough in that time that I didn't need to water them. After that I opened just a corner for a few days and then a little more over the course of about three weeks until the lid was totally open. After that I started trialling putting them outside and in other locations.

If you want to deflask them into a location in your greenhouse I would put them flask in the greenhouse for a good three weeks or so and then deflask into their but still into a humidity box or a large fish tank.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

Oh and yes the coir from bunnings, I get the one without the added fertilisers. After the first week I start introducing a seaweed extract at every second watering first at half strength and then gradually getting stronger.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

There's another trick you can use that I've tried before ...

You may just use a tray and place a wet newspaper on the tray. Then put the pots with the seedlings on top of the tray with the newspaper. Use clear plastic pot(s) or clear plastic bottle(s) with holes/slots and put it over the seedlings. Wet the newspaper and then make sure the seedlings get watered accordingly, periodically.

Just throwing an idea out there. Use it if you like. If you like the idea and end up using it, let me know how it works out for you, I'd like to know.

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by greengarden

I found the coir to be less likely to develop mould. Real sphagnum is probably good but the dead stuff in the bag from the nursery seems to get a blue green fuzzy mould on it where it meets the plants and I'm not a fan of it as a planting medium for seedlings as a result.

I used a large plastic tub, put sphagnum moss (or coir) in a layer on the bottom and then a plastic nursery tray on top for the pots to sit on. Once I loaded all the pots in I watered them with demineralised water and then covered the top in glad wrap and just left it alone and watched it for about a week. The humidity was high enough in that time that I didn't need to water them. After that I opened just a corner for a few days and then a little more over the course of about three weeks until the lid was totally open. After that I started trialling putting them outside and in other locations.

If you want to deflask them into a location in your greenhouse I would put them flask in the greenhouse for a good three weeks or so and then deflask into their but still into a humidity box or a large fish tank.

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

Oh and yes the coir from bunnings, I get the one without the added fertilisers. After the first week I start introducing a seaweed extract at every second watering first at half strength and then gradually getting stronger.

Hi Greengarden,

Thanks again for your help and advice. I potted the remaining seedlings that looked reasonable into spag moss and the pot has a plastic sandwich bag with a hole for on top and sat it on a window sill. Unfortunately when I checked them this morning they look depressed. Some have yellowing leaves and others have black discoloured tips. All in all they are probably going to go wherever orchids go when they die. Do you think I could have got a bad batch (not that I am looking to blame, just interested)? Anyway, I’ll take this as a lesson learned and try again.
Cheers
Adrian

[greengarden]

If they were a bad batch they would have looked bad in the flask not after deflasking. This is one reason I like to wait. I have flasks sitting on my kitchen shelf that I bought two months ago and some that I got about 4 weeks ago. I'm watching the way the grow and considering the best way to deflask them. I lost the entirety of the first flask I did, lost a few on the next one and hardly any of my most recent so I feel like I'm starting to find what works well for me in my climate, etc.

[Rowangreen]

From discussions elsewhere it seems a really important factor is to start with clean medium. That means microwaving it before use. I used sphagnum and microwaved it (damp) for a couple of minutes. I think you can microwave bark as well. That way they are coming out of a sterile flask into a nearly sterile enviroment, which will gradually become less sterile: so they get to meet bugs gradually rather than all at once.

I'm not sure waiting till the last possible minute to deflask is always the right option. I think it might be better to do them when they are growing strongly in flask but before they start getting stressed due to crowding.

I've also been told humidity is important, as again they would have had high humidity in flask, and may not have developed the pore on their leaves to handle dryer conditions, and need time to grow them. Mine are in a propogator in a dry tray with a leca and water layer underneath. I found with the top on I got 100% humidity, even with the vents open. So I've gradually increased the time I leave the propogator with the top off, starting 10-15 minutes, working up to all day.

My experience is limited: I've done 4 mini flasks, mixed species, total of 13 plants! Back in October, all still with me and growing well. At the moment they are still in the propogator with the top on at night: I still have to go through potting up individually and transferring to long term growing places, so might lose some then.

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by Rowangreen

From discussions elsewhere it seems a really important factor is to start with clean medium. That means microwaving it before use. I used sphagnum and microwaved it (damp) for a couple of minutes. I think you can microwave bark as well. That way they are coming out of a sterile flask into a nearly sterile enviroment, which will gradually become less sterile: so they get to meet bugs gradually rather than all at once.

I'm not sure waiting till the last possible minute to deflask is always the right option. I think it might be better to do them when they are growing strongly in flask but before they start getting stressed due to crowding.

I've also been told humidity is important, as again they would have had high humidity in flask, and may not have developed the pore on their leaves to handle dryer conditions, and need time to grow them. Mine are in a propogator in a dry tray with a leca and water layer underneath. I found with the top on I got 100% humidity, even with the vents open. So I've gradually increased the time I leave the propogator with the top off, starting 10-15 minutes, working up to all day.

My experience is limited: I've done 4 mini flasks, mixed species, total of 13 plants! Back in October, all still with me and growing well. At the moment they are still in the propogator with the top on at night: I still have to go through potting up individually and transferring to long term growing places, so might lose some then.

Hello Rowan

thanks very much for all that great advice. I have four I am trying to save and have them in a sealed clear plastic zip-lock back. so far they are looking ok but i think that they are likely living on borrowed time. even if one makes it, I would consider it a victory.
One think i didn't try was to sterilize the media in the microwave so that might be a trick that may make a difference. Practise makes perfect (I'd be happy with average at this stage.)

again, thanks very much

Adrian