Using rain water

[james mickelso]

Having spent 30+ years in the wastewater and water industries, going to endless classes on water quality, biology courses, and environmental quality classes for all those years, and the other 20 years in the construction industries has given me ample time to learn and study and experience all that is wrong with the environment the innumeral ills associated with the water environment. Remember I said I used rain water quite a lot when I grew bonsai for 40 years. I used it because it was more pure than the city water here in SoCal which averages 700+ ppm mineral hardness. Not conducive to growing plants such as azaleas and pines in a container. But to say there are no pathogens in rain water is folly. It is why agriculture sprays fungicides by the millions of tons on our food crops and still myriad species of food crops get fungal, bactrial, and virus infections. Why the average northern hemisphere rainfall pH has gone down by a full point. In some areas killing whole forests in the process. All I initially said was that for those who believe that rain water is pure should understand that it is not. And this is not information I found on the internet. It is knowlege gained from a lifetime in the water industry and surfing for most of my life. Remember that besides water bourne human diseases, insects are the main vector for disease in the world and those same insects poop on your roof. If I could get enough rainwater around here I would use it but alas I live in a desert. So I use RO water on my orchids. More pure than rain water. Next time it rains, take a bottle that has been sterilized and collect some rainwater and let it sit for a week or two. That being said, yes if you use rainwater or RO/DI water you will need to mix in the minerals that are missing in it. Ray can guide you to what you need in this regard. I use a balanced fertilizer that gets all that I need into the water I use. As soon as it warms up enough I will again get some additional additive from Ray. I liked what it did last season and so I will get some more.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

Having spent 30+ years in the wastewater and water industries, going to endless classes on water quality, biology courses, and environmental quality classes for all those years, and the other 20 years in the construction industries has given me ample time to learn and study and experience all that is wrong with the environment the innumeral ills associated with the water environment. Remember I said I used rain water quite a lot when I grew bonsai for 40 years. I used it because it was more pure than the city water here in SoCal which averages 700+ ppm mineral hardness. Not conducive to growing plants such as azaleas and pines in a container. But to say there are no pathogens in rain water is folly. It is why agriculture sprays fungicides by the millions of tons on our food crops and still myriad species of food crops get fungal, bactrial, and virus infections. Why the average northern hemisphere rainfall pH has gone down by a full point. In some areas killing whole forests in the process. All I initially said was that for those who believe that rain water is pure should understand that it is not. And this is not information I found on the internet. It is knowlege gained from a lifetime in the water industry and surfing for most of my life. Remember that besides water bourne human diseases, insects are the main vector for disease in the world and those same insects poop on your roof. If I could get enough rainwater around here I would use it but alas I live in a desert. So I use RO water on my orchids. More pure than rain water. Next time it rains, take a bottle that has been sterilized and collect some rainwater and let it sit for a week or two. That being said, yes if you use rainwater or RO/DI water you will need to mix in the minerals that are missing in it. Ray can guide you to what you need in this regard. I use a balanced fertilizer that gets all that I need into the water I use. As soon as it warms up enough I will again get some additional additive from Ray. I liked what it did last season and so I will get some more.

How much rain water did you get?
All my bonsai and pines are doing great but I'm planting azaleas blueberries and camellias and am worried about the water quality down here in SoCal.
I tried to pick the best varieties suited to to my conditions but.. this water is harsh and changes constantly.
I can't even use it on my orchids or fish anymore.


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[Ferns Daddy]

I'm glad I posted this question, I find it very interesting and I'm learning alot from it

[Paul Mc]

I'm just a bystander and I'm learning tons!!!!

[james mickelso]

Hi Ord, I grew pinus thunbergia and pentaphyla along with azaleas. Lots of junipers too. I usually got between 3 and 5 40 gal trashcans of rainwater. Because of the slime molds and alga in it I chlorinated it then aerated it for a day with an air pump to get the chlorine out. Still after about a month it wasn't that great. I had a small RO unit that was sufficient for my 70 trees. The water down in San Diego is horrid. It took a real toll on my bonsai apricots and quince. The crab apples wouldn't tolerate it at all. I never used city water on any of my maples. Instead I used distilled water I got from the lab at the wastewater plant at Point Loma. I used to spread a 40x40 tarp across theback yard when a good storm was coming and caught as much as I could. Now I use RO water I buy from the big water dispensing machines in front of the super markets here. Since I started using it my orchids have really brightened and flower more. Some time all us here in SoCal have to get together and chat. Say an orchid show or something in Orange Co. What are your thoughts on this?

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

Ord if you are using the city water on your plants in the ground then it will be ok. It is when you are using it on plants in a potted environment that it is harmfull. It hurts the roots by burning them and also plugging them up with salts. You can try leaching the potting soil but I never had much luck with that. Calcium, manganese, and magnesium along with salt are the main culprits. In some areas around here sodium ions and iron also.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by Ferns Daddy

I'm glad I posted this question, I find it very interesting and I'm learning alot from it

Me too! Sorry to hijack.

Originally Posted by Paul Mc

I'm just a bystander and I'm learning tons!!!!

Isn't that great about this thus forum?


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[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

Hi Ord, I grew pinus thunbergia and pentaphyla along with azaleas. Lots of junipers too. I usually got between 3 and 5 40 gal trashcans of rainwater. Because of the slime molds and alga in it I chlorinated it then aerated it for a day with an air pump to get the chlorine out. Still after about a month it wasn't that great. I had a small RO unit that was sufficient for my 70 trees. The water down in San Diego is horrid. It took a real toll on my bonsai apricots and quince. The crab apples wouldn't tolerate it at all. I never used city water on any of my maples. Instead I used distilled water I got from the lab at the wastewater plant at Point Loma. I used to spread a 40x40 tarp across theback yard when a good storm was coming and caught as much as I could. Now I use RO water I buy from the big water dispensing machines in front of the super markets here. Since I started using it my orchids have really brightened and flower more. Some time all us here in SoCal have to get together and chat. Say an orchid show or something in Orange Co. What are your thoughts on this?

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 PM ----------

Ord if you are using the city water on your plants in the ground then it will be ok. It is when you are using it on plants in a potted environment that it is harmfull. It hurts the roots by burning them and also plugging them up with salts. You can try leaching the potting soil but I never had much luck with that. Calcium, manganese, and magnesium along with salt are the main culprits. In some areas around here sodium ions and iron also.

I think meeting up would be great if none of you mind teaching this young newbie.
I'm actually going to my first orchid show ever on ninth of February up in Westminster.
I'm very excited.

Almost all of my plants are in the ground. Especially the pH sensitive ones.
My potted ones handle our water well enough..

I'm about an hour north of San Diego, and our water is also wretched.. lol...
I don't get word of orchid shows though... I would love to come to shine if the I've down there and meet up!

My orchids have improved in health dramatically since switching to RODI water. But this fertiliser things got me all worried again lol.
I need a home unit for my indoor orchids.. Right now I buy it by the gallon at a local fish store.
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[james mickelso]

Just go to your local supermarket and find the RO water machine. Down here it's Glacier Water. It's only .25 to .30 a gallon. I buy 12 gallons at a time. It's very low in minerals. I think less than 10 ppm. I will try to get up to Westminster and see the show. You'll love it. I went before. A great place to buy orchids too. I usually buy from the donation table. Great deals. I'll let you know if I go. The San Diego show is coming up too. Maybe try to get down here for that one. One of the biggest in Cal.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by james mickelso

Just go to your local supermarket and find the RO water machine. Down here it's Glacier Water. It's only .25 to .30 a gallon. I buy 12 gallons at a time. It's very low in minerals. I think less than 10 ppm. I will try to get up to Westminster and see the show. You'll love it. I went before. A great place to buy orchids too. I usually buy from the donation table. Great deals. I'll let you know if I go. The San Diego show is coming up too. Maybe try to get down here for that one. One of the biggest in Cal.

It's .25 a gallon at the fish store.... I just want a home unit so that if I need extra I don't have to lug 20 gallons of water home.
I don't have a kit to test the ppm if my water unfortunately.
I'm excited! My birthday is the week before so I'm excited to have some extra cash to spend there!
Please do!
I'm always connected to the forum via my phone.
I would love to meet up and you can guide me through the world of orchids.
My experience with them so far is restricted to the internet, personal experience, and Trader Joe's...
Where can I get information about the San Diego show?
I would love to go to that as well.

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[Leafmite]

If you are new to blueberries, be sure to use iron to lower the soil pH instead of aluminum sulfate. If you have robins in your yard, buy bird netting, too. Robins do not share.
Camellias have a society and they have a really great web site that offers tons of info on planting, pruning, hardiness, etc. I grow one in a pot (indoors in the winter) and this site was great.
Good luck!