Names on tags

[Ferns Daddy]

I just got my Volcano Queen " Spring white" on the tag it says (Blc Wendy Tanaka -C Ruth Gee ) I'm not sure if the first name means its the pollen parent and the second is seed parent, could some one help me so I can understand how this works, I hope I'm saying this so you understand it

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

You mean it's a:

Blc Volcano Queen 'Spring White' (Blc Wendy Tanaka x C Ruth Gee)

Am I correct?

You're asking about the (Blc Wendy Tanaka x C Ruth Gee) portion of the name, right?

Because if you are, then yeah, the two names in the parentheses are the parents of the cross.

[Ferns Daddy]

Sorry,I guess I didn't say it right What I wanted to know is the pollen parent is Blc Wendy Tanaka and the seed is patent C Ruth Gee ? I guess I still have a lot to learn about how names work on orchids
Thanks for taking your time helping me

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Oh! You wanted to know which one was the pollen parent and which one was the pod parent!

Not sure which is which. Someone else can answer.

[Ferns Daddy]

thats it

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I looked it up, and I believe the name of the pod/seed parent comes first, then the name of the pollen parent is second.

So, according to what I read:

Blc Wendy Tanaka = pod/seed parent

C Ruth Gee = pollen parent

Let's see if this can be verified by others...

[Ferns Daddy]

Thanks so much

[goodgollymissmolly]

FD,

First..There is convention in horticulture that that the pod parent be listed first (pod x pollen). However, there is no "rule" that requires or strongly suggests this action. It's just conventional and you can only guess that any person listing parents did it following that convention (assuming they even know, see below).

Second...in orchids, the International Orchid Registrar at RHS, asks, on the registration form, for parentage with the pod parent first and lists a cross that way on the registration records. HOWEVER...all subsequent crosses, regardless of the pod/pollen relationship, between the same two parents are called by the same GREX name.

So let's assume A x B is registered as C. The records show A as pod parent of C. You come along and make the B x A hybrid. The GREX name of your cross is also C. Therefore the original cross is known in the records, but there is no official way to know the order of any subsequent crosses of the same parents.

To your question...maybe someone who happened to know the facts wrote your tag. Maybe someone knew the GREX and just copied the registered parents to the tag. Or maybe someone just listed parents without any knowledge of the facts.

There is no way to know in your case which is the pod and pollen parent without more information that is not officially documented. This is a clear weakness in the documentation system because the pod parent contributes all the chloroplast DNA and all the mitochondrial DNA. Consequently, both the appearance and vitality of your plant is largely unknown to you just from the tag.

It is the way it is. Good question.

[Stray59]

Not only a good question - also and excellent answer! I have always been told Pod parent first, pollen parent second. I had no idea about the RHS deciding not to place correct breeding order on all the crosses. It could be that as they did not know about DNA contributions, they probably thought that it did not matter which carried the seed and which contributed the pollen. Very interesting to know as I wanted to make some of the old crosses again, using plants I already have. You have given me reason to pause over this revelation -
Hummmm!
Happy Holidays !!!
Steve

[goodgollymissmolly]

Originally Posted by Stray59

Not only a good question - also and excellent answer! I have always been told Pod parent first, pollen parent second. I had no idea about the RHS deciding not to place correct breeding order on all the crosses. It could be that as they did not know about DNA contributions, they probably thought that it did not matter which carried the seed and which contributed the pollen. Very interesting to know as I wanted to make some of the old crosses again, using plants I already have. You have given me reason to pause over this revelation -
Hummmm!
Happy Holidays !!!
Steve

Steve, I wouldn't characterize it exactly as you did. The statement that RHS decided not to give correct breeding order is too strong. They do give the order of the cross in the initial registration (subject to the honesty and intelligence of the registrant). However, the decision made before computers existed (way before) by Sanders to consider all crosses between two parents to be the same GREX has carried forward to this day. You cannot correct that except by recording GREX names based on parent order. Thus the crosses between two parents could have two different names.

That scenario has a downside also. First, there is no way to resurrect the historical data. Second it would require researching two names to look up a cross. We could clearly now handle the data load, but for the value it would add it doesn't seem worthwhile.

At some point the use of a certain cultivar for breeding boils down to evaluating its phenotype. While correct genotype information would certainly be useful, the range of nuclear DNA variation is such that it typically comes down to evaluating the physical properties of the cultivar to be used in breeding.

I know that I am arguing both ends of the stick, but there are valid issues to be argued. I, for one, argue against two names for the same cross, but others probably feel differently.