Some general Phal questions...

[The Mutant]

There are some things I've been pondering about for at least half a second:

1) How do I know that the humidity is to low? How can I tell? Will it show on my Phals somehow?

2) It says in the care sheet that Phals require a temperature difference of 15F to 20F between day and night. If they are not provided this difference, what might be the results?

3) Why on earth do they drool?! You know, the "happy sap". One of my newer purchases scared the living daylights out of me by doing this from its leaves, I've only had Phals doing it from the spikes before.

4) Do the species Phals require more natural conditions than the Noid hybrids to thrive?

That's it for now. I'll return if I have some more general questions.

[Discus]

1) get an RH meter and know for sure. Really low RH will show in wilted flowers and general unhappyness.
2) no new spikes, although many studies seem to show that the real requirement is an overall reduction in temperature for a couple of weeks (in autumn).
3) Never seen a phal drool, but with plants that do this, it's usually a sign of either very high "water pressure" or an overabundance of sap - either way, it's usually happy.
4) Many of them, yes, because they have less "hybrid vigour" so are likely to be a little more delicate. To some extent this may be mitigated by line breeding, which might tend to select for clones which do better in captivity.

Hope this helps

[camille1585]

I think Discus summed it up pretty well.
A few things I can add:
1)You can find an analog hygrometer pretty easliy in terrarium supply shops (a store or online). I got mine for 8€.

2)For the blooming temps, there is actually no scientific evidence of a day-night night temperature difference inducing blooming. All the studies done to date point in the direction of an over temp drop being responsible. Good light and regular feeding is sufficient, and mother nature will naturally take care of the temperature for you!

5) Aside from the hybrid vigor, because hybrids are of mixed parentage and those parents may each take different conditions, hybrids will be more forgiving of a wider range of temperature/humidity. Lucky for you that the species that you are obsessed with (equestris) is one of the easiest and more forgiving out there!

[Discus]

First Rays latest newsletter (which just arrived in my inbox) has a nice article on the effect of temperatures on spike initiation in phals, which also sides on the "lower average temp" rather that "day/night fluctuation" side of the debate. I've seen this idea from quite a few sources, so it seems to be pretty much the status quo - and given the importance of phals in the trade, I imagine their flowering triggers will be well known (if perhaps somewhat jealously guarded by some!). I'd reproduce the text here, but I hate recycling other people's text without permission. I'll see if I can find a copy online for you.

Sorry, can't find it on his site :/

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

Oh, the only other thing I can thing about for 2) is a lack of day/night temperature fluctuation may lead to a) shorter bloom life and perhaps b) slower growth (or conceivably, faster growth, but unlikely).

This is related to the effect of temperature on metabolic activity; warmer = faster, so if you think about flower lifespan being a number of physiological "ticks" rather than a finite time, and warmer = faster "ticks", then those ticks will pass in less time - you'll see this quite dramatically in flower lifespan in cut flowers, all other things being equal. In winter in an unheated house, the flowers last some time; in summer, the same flowers wilt quite fast.

With regards to growth rate, at night, the plant isn't making more energy (no photosynthesis), so it makes sense to slow the metabolism down a bit - I assume that phals aren't producing sugars/storage products to excess, so hot night-time temperatures may be the physiological equivalent of a "fast" on their metabolism (i.e. sugars are used "just for being" that might otherwise be used on growth). If of course you had tons of energy to spare, then you might actually grow faster if things were warmer 24/7, but I think this unlikely.

[camille1585]

The lower average temps is what mega commercial Phal growers do over here in the Netherlands. If they are doing it then it must work better since they will use whatever method gets them the best plants (and so $$$). I have the growing manual from one of those mega growers, and they do the following:
"For an appropriate growth endeavors should be made to maintain an average temperature of 26-27°C during the growing phase and 19-21°C during the finishing phase. During the cooling phase (=spike induction) the temperature must be maintained between 18-20°C. A temperature of 18°C is particularly necessary in the event that the induction of budding needs to be enhanced in conditions of inadequate light or high daytime temperatures."

At the same time they increase light levels at each stage.

Heck, I even found a paper where they experiments with night temps being higher than day temps. Everything bloomed, as long as the max temperature was below 30°C. But they also found that if nights were warmer than days, even though they bloomed the plants grew much smaller.
In another paper researchers found the same max temp threshold, and lack of effect of lowered night temps.

[The Mutant]

Thank you guys! You really are a seemingly never ending source of knowledge.

Since me and my friend plan on going to a local pet shop later this week to check out the baby snakes (they apparently have three baby Corn snakes ) I'll buy a hygrometer while I'm at it. I'll also buy a thermometer since I actually don't have one!

I've been wondering about the humidity since I know that it's too low. I live in a flat in Sweden after all and during winter the air gets really dry (so dry that the sparks are flying off my cats when I'm patting them). But so far I haven't noticed any obvious reactions from my Phal crew though, but since most of it consist of newbies, it's hard to tell...

As far as I know I don't think the temperature fluctuates as much as required but I think the average temperature where they stand is a bit on the low side. When I have a thermometer I'll be able to check for sure.

Clever of me to be obsessed with equestris in other words (and certain Phal hybrids in general). How about stuartiana and schilleriana? Are they more finicky, and what about their offspring, Wiganiae?

I want to be able not only to provide my Phals with an "okay, we can survive and bloom on occasion" environment, but more of a "wo-hoo, this place totally rocks!" type of environment. I know one thing I can improve already and that is the water quality. The dH-value is good (approximately 3) but the pH-value is too high (around 8). I need some peat to filter the water through (since I can't collect rainwater) and this should become available in stores soon.

[camille1585]

40-50% humidity is fine for most hybrids, but the higher the better!
As for temperature fluctuation, if you don't have air conditioning then the plants naturally experience the average drop at the beginning of fall. That's why a lot of Phal blooms over the winter.

[The Mutant]

Oh dear. I bought a hygrometer today and I have an impressive 28% of humidity in my flat!


I think I need to do something about it, the question is what? I've checked some humidifiers that could help boost up the humidity, but the question is; is it worth it? Please, don't get me wrong here - but what if I get over my orchid fad then this will be yet another unnecessary investment, but on the other hand a higher humidity is good, not only for the plants, but for me and my kitties too... Hmm... Decisions, decisions.

[Discus]

I've so far burnt out 2 home humidifiers on my balcony in a year - the second other one died during a heatwave yesterday (good timing...). Considering I got one repaired, that's 3. They weren't cheap either. It might be that if you opt for a more reasonable level (I was aiming for 70-75%) they'll last longer.

[The Mutant]

I think the ones I've been looking at have been similar to the one in the link. I believe the Phals (plus me and the cats) will be happy with a boost to at least 50-60%. At first I thought about getting a cheaper humidifier, but then I realized that they are cheaper for a reason.