AOS Awards

[Tsuchibuta]

Originally Posted by glengary54

Tsuchibuta - Just one thing about awards and costs, if a person, grower or otherwise doesn't want any more awards all they have to do is mark their plants as not for AOS judging when they are registered at a Show

Very true - sorry I left that out - my point was more that there is clearly a social aspect of the awarding process regardless of what is written in the guidebook, because if it truly was anonymous and based purely on the plants then ultimately how could the judges doing the judging know if somebody didn't pay their fee for the last award? The mere fact that a judge made this comment, shows that the judges know who's plant it is and thus it raises the questions of bias.

goodgollymissmolly tried to point out in another thread that it's subjective like gymnastics, but what she left out of her comment on the other post was that a few years back the Olympic committee had to revamp the judging process in gymnastics because of match fixing by judges.

The simple fact is that it is human nature to want to help out your friends and punish your enemies, and to think AOS judging does not have this problem is laughable. So I can see why Bud had the impression of the judges that he had.

What really is lost in all of this is that really the awards are for the members - because ultimately if you want the award you want to be part show world which means that you play by their rules, and brown nosing helps here as well as anywhere else in the world. Otherwise the general public could care less, because their intent is not to show, but to grow.

[glengary54]

Tsuchibuta - I agree with everything that you have said but this; " So I can see why Bud had the impression of the judges that he had"

The problem was that he had knowledge to base his impressions on. He had no idea what a Judge was and what they do or how they do it and further he claims to be a member of AOS yet he has no idea of any of what they or do.

I have no problem with anyone's opinion of any person, place or thing as long as it is formed by some amount of knowledge and by knowledge I don't mean assumptions or what has been told to them by other people.

[Bud]

One just has to pay the dues and be a member of AOS and besides I needed to know some of the cultures for my orchids...thats why I am a member by virtue of paid membership...but as for knowledge of what AOS is all about...I am completely ignorant except on what short clips I read about them and what I read from complaints here in the forum...so I had the notion they are just an income generating entity and nothing more...I am glad that I am learning the AOS is something more than just a bussiness wanting my money.
I also paid membership to RHS ...and Baker's and the only reason I dont own a 'wiz' is its costing me $350.00 to get it...otherwise to me: they are all an organized bussiness wanting my money...and the legitimacy is lessened...whereas: google is free so I hold them as a true champion of truth and finding facts because it goes after sponsors not my wallet to provide information
I am looking at AOS...RHS and the likes in a different light now...they are poor and want help from the masses...in fact it is serving the masses not just the few rich and priviledged.
I do not belong to the rich and priviledged...so I thought I was not relevant to Orchid growing the Royal Horticulture and AOS...that is why I have low regard for them before...but not anymore

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

As for my stalkers from the 'other forum'
WELCOME AND HELLO !
notice the freedom we all have here to discuss whatever under the sun...
the staff and mods dont and never get in the discussions...they never meddled except to check on who is disobeying the rules...
it is never personal
it is always about the knowledge and what can be learned from anyone's experience

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Bud

As for my stalkers from the 'other forum'...

Stalker?! Really? Oh puuuuuuleeeease! Perhaps you should look at my OB join date. I've been a member here too long to be called your stalker. I saw when you popped on...like I said, I've just opted to remain quiet and not make any comments.

HA! Now that I think about it...I'll bet I've been an OB member longer than you've been growing orchids.

[Bud]

that doesnt matter if I am ignorant or new to orchid growing...

the fact is: you are getting personal

the big question is:
in the years you have been an orchid grower...what have you learned? what did you contribute?
being a bitter old woman doesnt count...

what is your claim to fame?

[camille1585]

Can we please, please stop attacking one another to avoid things getting out of hand again? I would hate to be forced to lock this thread....

[msaar]

Originally Posted by Tsuchibuta

Very true - sorry I left that out - my point was more that there is clearly a social aspect of the awarding process regardless of what is written in the guidebook, because if it truly was anonymous and based purely on the plants then ultimately how could the judges doing the judging know if somebody didn't pay their fee for the last award? The mere fact that a judge made this comment, shows that the judges know who's plant it is and thus it raises the questions of bias.

There's never a lack of ignorance on the internet. The reason any person not paying for their award will not get any more awards is not because an individual judge may or may not know who the non-payer is, but the AOS does, and it is they(not individual judges) who will not grant any more awards until all awards are paid in full. Judges who do not pay awards may be suspended or terminated. You assume that the "they" is the judges, when, in fact, it is the AOS.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Bud

that doesnt matter if I am ignorant or new to orchid growing...

the fact is: you are getting personal

the big question is:
in the years you have been an orchid grower...what have you learned? what did you contribute?
being a bitter old woman doesnt count...

what is your claim to fame?

I never claimed any fame. I have learned a great deal in the years I have been growing. Thanks for asking on both.

I guess I should contribute to more of the discussions on this board...thanks for suggesting it.

There's no shame in being new. You clearly misunderstood my comment. Never mind.

As to the old -- well, I guess I am old if being in your 40's is old.

Sorry Camille and OP for my part in taking this thread off topic.
Back to OT ----

[Tsuchibuta]

Originally Posted by msaar

There's never a lack of ignorance on the internet. The reason any person not paying for their award will not get any more awards is not because an individual judge may or may not know who the non-payer is, but the AOS does, and it is they(not individual judges) who will not grant any more awards until all awards are paid in full. Judges who do not pay awards may be suspended or terminated. You assume that the "they" is the judges, when, in fact, it is the AOS.

I am clearly aware of that, and I really wish that was what the man was talking about. However I heard and saw the conversation with my own eyes and he was plain and clear in his explanation being about the local judging center. (I am leaving the name of judging center out of the mix out of respect.) It was not a simple comment in jest. This was a very old judge (whom no longer travelled all over to judge) speaking with other older veterans (not other judges but old growers equally accomplished in awards) at great length about the b/s that goes along with process and how they have tired of the game but keep doing it just in case they have a plant they'd really like judged one day. I was still fairly new at the vendor game when I witnessed this conversation and I was completely appalled. Then overtime after speaking with hordes of other vendors, veterans, student judges, and judges I soon learned that there is more to judging than just the quality of the plants.

- Additionally since you were trying to imply logic, logic should tell you that a judge whom has went through years of training would know to check the box "not for judging" if he was only trying to play by the "written" rules.

[msaar]

You know what you heard; I'm not totally convinced that you understood the context.
If a judge refused to pay for an award, he/she would first be barred from having plants judged, and be prohibited from participating in judging. Eventually he/she would be suspended, and finally terminated. The other judges in that judging center would certainly know whether he/she owed for an award, but it could not affect the anonymity of judging since he/she could not have plants judged.