Sphag and bag... holes or no holes? - Orchid Board

cythaenopsis · #1 09-15-2011, 02:41 PM

Last fall I got a "double phal", basically two plants growing in one pot (one smaller than the other). Later on, after the 2nd bloom cycle, I discovered sufficient root rot going on that I decided to re-pot and separate them. I think it was important to do this, because the two plants would be competing for the same nutrients and moisture. It may have been fine in the beginning, but after more leaf growth, I figured it was the best move.

Much to my dismay, I discovered that I was probably over-watering my phals. There was a lot of root rot going on. Thankfully, the main phal wasn't too bad and had enough roots after trimming. The smaller one didn't really have much, maybe *2* semi-healthy smallish roots and a lot of root stubs.

So, I re-potted both and then noticed the small phal suffering some wilting leaves (the two larger outer ones). After reading up more about this, I noticed the "sphag and bag" technique for restoration.

(sorry I got a bit long winded here... I'll get to the point now!)

FirstRays offers up a procedure for this, but there's no mention of poking any holes--just ziplock and tuck away. But then I've seen others say you should either poke some holes in the bag or open it up every few days to let some fresh air in. And then others who even say the technique doesn't work for them and they've tried other techniques.

My phal is showing some minor signs of new root growth as it is... but I'm realizing that there's just not enough intense even moisture exposure in the potting mix and by watering it I'm just making a lot of wet moss (which fungus gnats will be attracted to). So for now, I just went ahead and did the procedure.

What's the general take on this? Does it come down to just personal experimentation? Or, is there something else or in addition I should do to help this phal recover?

Wjs2nd · #2 09-15-2011, 09:43 PM

I have never tried this so I can't really help with the sphag and bag but I can suggest that you try using some rooting hormone to help stimulate root growth.

Ray · #3 09-16-2011, 08:03 AM

The idea behind "sphag-n-bag" is to maximize the RH around the plant to slow drying, hence prevent desiccation while it recovers.

Sealed bag / perforated bag / open-topped bag really only affects how frequently you'll have to replenish the humidifying water supply.

Sometimes, if I'm dealing with a plant that was just repotted, I just invert a bag over the plant and pot.

cythaenopsis · #4 09-16-2011, 12:31 PM

Thanks, Ray! I've been learning a lot from your website--tons of great info there.

This particular phal has to very small roots--the rest were just mush that had to be chopped off. Two of the larger leaves began to show discoloring and flaccid structure, while the two inner ones are very healthy. It just seems to me that moisture concentration at the healthy roots is important, something that would be difficult to do in a potted medium. So, trying the bag technique... hopefully the plant survives, but I have a feeling it may not recover in time to bloom in the next cycle. I'll have to try some of that root hormone!

cythaenopsis · #5 10-10-2011, 02:59 PM

Well, it has been almost a month since I bagged my troubled phal. I've changed out the moss a couple of times, so that it doesn't get too moldy in there. The environment seems to be working. The two starter roots that the plant showed earlier have started to grow longer. It lost one leaf and another is yellowing, but the other two appear to be very healthy. I don't think this one is going to recover in time for blooming in the next seasonal cycle, but if it can do so sometime next year it'll feel good that I was able to rescue it from certain death.

So, I'm just glad to report that this bag trick has worked for me... so far!

cythaenopsis · #6 10-12-2011, 06:01 PM

Uh oh... I may have spoken too soon.

The phal had 4 leaves, one of which was already in a serious stage of yellowing and one that looked like it was just beginning. So, in the bag the worst leaf ended up falling off and the other continued to yellow. The two younger leaves seemed fine, though.

When I took the plant out and saw the new growth, I thought perhaps it was time to repot and let it have more fresh air. And that's when I noticed that the green coloring of the leaves wasn't quite up to snuff with my healthy phal. I could see a subtle yellowish hue.

Now it's a few days later and the yellow coloration is increasing. It looks like the plant is about to shed its last two leaves! It seems bizarre, because it has fresh roots coming out of it... 3 of them actually. I take it that once the yellowing starts, that's basically it for them? Any chance they may "recover"? I have to believe that if the plant loses the leaves, then it is done for--no further photosynthesis possible. That would be a bummer...

jaxorchidman · #7 10-12-2011, 08:20 PM

Short and sweet: NO HOLES.

james mickelso · #8 10-16-2011, 09:04 PM

My procedure. Cut off the wilting?yellowing leaves. Dust the cuts with sulfur. Dust the roots with Rootone. Take a handful of spagnum moss and thoroughly wet. Squeeze it till it's just damp. Put in gallon ziplock bag with the bottom corners cut off (3/4 inch holes now). Poke or cut some holes midway from bottom of bag to top. Place plant on spagnum. I do not bury the plant but just lay it on top. I then only "dampen" the moss when there is no more condensation inside the bag. And then only a little water. I don't do anything more to the plant until it has grown some decent roots. I live at the beach in SoCal and have trouble with fungus and mold on cool days. I am going to try soaking the spagnum in water with some fungicide in it. I cut off the damaged leaves because they don't do anything but sap the energy out of the plant. I dust with sulfur to seal the wound. I have success with around 50% of what I use this method on. And I use this method on only those plants or back bulbs which have not responded top anything else.

cythaenopsis · #9 10-17-2011, 12:21 PM

In my case, there was plenty of condensation inside the bag... the plant started forming roots and everything looked fine. At first. The two bottom leaves had turned yellow and fallen off. I figured this was OK, because the plant was focusing its energy on root production and didn't need those two. However, the top two leaves started to yellow as well. That would mean NO leaves left if they fell off. That's not good. No leaves = no photosynthesis.

So, I pulled the plant from the bag and potted it. I'm frequently watering and misting the plant to help get moisture to the roots for the time being, while being aware of the need to let it dry out a bit as well so that root rot doesn't occur again. The yellowing doesn't seem to be progressing further on the leaves, but I don't know if the plant can salvage them. If it can't well, I guess it'll be done for.

cythaenopsis · #10 12-19-2011, 04:21 PM

The poor Phal seemed to have some hope that was soon dashed. The remaining two leaves that were green began to yellow. Thankfully, the progression stopped, and for quite a while both leaves "hung on" to their green. But then, one leaf developed a few black spots and eventually turned completely yellow. I pulled the plant from the pot to check for roots. Sure enough, there were a few (some green, some beige). And then, I saw the tiniest strip of green in the center of the crown. Could it be a leaf? I kept caring for it. The one remaining leaf looked to be a little healthier than before.

Well, a couple of weeks later, there is some new growth going on. I definitely see the beginnings of a new leaf.

I'm now thinking it may be a good time to get a heating mat for my orchids, as the chilly spot near the window may tax this poor Phal still clinging to life. Anyway, I'm hopeful it'll make a comeback. It's just a little Phal... but if next year finds it blooming and healthy, it'll be great to think back on how it came back from the brink of death with a little help from me.