Correct name of a primary hybrid

[Val]

Originally Posted by RosieC

Have I confused everyone even more yet

So technically my hybrid is: (equestris x schilleriana) x equestris.
Being man made and registered, it has the grex name "Patricia Lillian".
If the exact same hybrid occured in nature, it would have been simply a P. x veitchiana (of some sort, since it's a secondary hybrid).

I had no idea that a P. x veitchiana crossed back (no matter how many times) with equestris is still a P. x veitchiana. It not exactly intuitive. This is probably because one could identify the parents of such a natural hybrid (schilleriana and equestris) without being able to tell their exact percentage (50-50 or 25-75 or 12.5-87.5 etc.).

[Bud]

WOW! This made my head spin...now I need a drink...
oh btw; Cody thanks that was a very logical explanation

[msaar]

A couple of more clarifications:
In naming, if the natural hybrid(P. x veitchiana) has been described first, the man-made hybrid will carry the name of the natural hybrid, capitalized(P. Veitchiana). If the man-made hybrid(P. Sulaceous) is named before the natural hybrid(P. x gersenii) is described and named, its name(P. Sulaceous) is not changed.
I had to break out my old "Handbook on Orchid Nomenclature and Registration"

[RosieC]

Originally Posted by Val

RHS lists it as Patricia Lillian, registered by Bettencourt in 1998.
The seed parent is Veitchiana (i.e. the man made cross).

Ah, I couldn't find that on their website, but I know if I mis-spelled anything while searching I would have missed it. Thanks for finding the name.

[RosieC]

Originally Posted by Val

So technically my hybrid is: (equestris x schilleriana) x equestris.
Being man made and registered, it has the grex name "Patricia Lillian".

That's how I read your tag, and Val has found that hybrid name for it on the RHS. So I would say that what you have.

Originally Posted by Val

If the exact same hybrid occured in nature, it would have been simply a P. x veitchiana (of some sort, since it's a secondary hybrid).

Yeap.

Originally Posted by Val

I had no idea that a P. x veitchiana crossed back (no matter how many times) with equestris is still a P. x veitchiana. It not exactly intuitive. This is probably because one could identify the parents of such a natural hybrid (schilleriana and equestris) without being able to tell their exact percentage (50-50 or 25-75 or 12.5-87.5 etc.).

Yes, for exactly the reason you say. No-one can keep track of how many times it has been back crossed with any of the parents when it is a wild/natural hybrid. All that is known is that the two parents live in close proximity (and can interbreed) and that some of the plants in the area show the traits of both parents. In this sort of area it is possible that some that look almost exactly like schilleriana actually have some equestris in their parentage and the same with ones that look like equestris. In an area where they grow together you get a complete range of plants between the two. If there is any sign that a plant has both parents then it will be x veitchiana.

[goodgollymissmolly]

msaar is 100% correct. If the natural hybrid is named first the manmade one has the same name but capitalized and regular typeface with no pre name character.

If the manmade cross is registered before the natural cross is discovered...then the manmade cross keeps its registered name.

One additional comment...
If a lower case x is used before the name there is a space between the x and the name as in
'x name'. If a multiplication sign is used × (the lines intersect at a 90 degree angle) then there is no space between the multiplication sign and the name. A third choice is to use the word "nothogenus" before the name. The word derived from Greek literally means bastard genus.

Thank you msaar for a rare thing...a correct response on the internet.

[Val]

Thank you everybody!
Lots of detail info - and great explanations.
Now I'm less ignorant than I was yesterday, and this always makes me feel good.