help me save my phal

[invar]

Hi everyone, first time poster, but I've been reading and searching here for months ever since I discovered root rot on my phal.

The condition steadily deteriorated after a repotting and eventually resulted in more and more roots falling off. By February, my phal was completely rootless and had 4 leaves.

I read about the sphag n bag technique. I also went to Garden World and bought some rooting hormone. I went to work cleaning everything off as best as I could using some hydrogen peroxide as I didn't have any physan 20 around. I bagged it up and left it near somewhere warm with indirect sunlight. As I did not have any sphag, I decided to use a damp sponge located in the opposite corner of the bag.

By around March, two new roots had begun sprouting and I was happy about it. Meanwhile, a leaf had turned yellow so I removed it. I should also note that I still had a pretty long stem at this point with what appeared to be a spike coming form it. I know, perhaps I should have cut it sooner to conserve energy.... but I really just couldn't bear to do it.

By the middle of April, the root had gotten longer... about 1" for each. However, the stump where all the roots used to be was still very black, and it still looked moldy/fungussy. Not good. The tip of one of the roots was also blackened. I gave it a light squeeze and to my horror it was completely mushy. I pushed it a little to see the base, and I could see that the root was rotted. This root was a goner. Thankfully, the other one remained healthy.

I went back to work again and I was very aggressive about things. I trimmed the dead root off, cut off the entire blackened portion of the stump, which resulted in the remaining stem hanging on barely. Eventually, the stem just snapped off due to lack of support. It felt pretty barky/dry at the base anyway.

At this point, I'm left with 3 leaves, no stem, and 1 very short 1" root. I soaked in hydrogen peroxide again, and rebagged it. Within a week, I saw a new root sprouting. Hurray.

Today, I gave it a close look over, and the longest root now is approximately 2" long. There was a new root sprouting but its growth was stunted. Upon closer examination, the tip was blackened. I scraped off the black stuff. Also, the largest outer leaf had turned yellow, so I snipped it off. Under the base area of the leaf that I removed, I noticed a bump (see attached picture). Why is that bump that color, and what is it? It feels solid. I feel like I'm still doing something wrong.

Today, I'm trying to suspend it over water with a plastic baggy covering things instead of the regular sphag n bag.

Am I not cleaning it properly? Is hydrogen peroxide no good? Do I HAVE to get physan to take care of this problem? Should this be repotted already? The root seems so small.

I thought I had things under control, but now I'm down to two leaves only and the infection (or whatever that black stuff is) still seems to be present!!

Thank you...

The images I attached are of the plant today.

[Gage]

I'm no expert, but looks like you're taking it in the right direction. I would also dab cinnamon on all cut/broken areas or any possible infected areas. I think if you can keep it holding on until it gets a couple more solid roots, it will stop dropping leaves.

[silken]

I'm no expert either but it does look like there is more rot on the 3rd photo. You are doing a good job it seems and there is a nice root there. You could try applying regular brown Listerine to that black area as it has anti bacterial/fungal properties. It is usually applied at full strength. If it is mushy at all I would consider cutting it away and then applying listerine and as Gage mentioned, cinnamon is good to apply to all cut areas to dry it up and prevent bacteria getting in. There still may be hope for that plant depending how far the rot is into the stem of the plant. I think it will continue to spread unless removed or controlled. You may have to treat it on a regular basis, not just once. Good luck with it and welcome to OB!

[invar]

Thanks for the replies!

So I might have to keep trimming the rot? If I keep doing that, I won't have a base anymore Isn't there something to put on there that will just kill the rot dead once and for all?

And any ideas on what the dark bump is that was hiding behind the base of the leaf that I removed? It protrudes a bit, but doesn't look like a root either.

I am REALLY afraid that rot will spread to that one good root, but if I continue trimming, the root won't be attached to anything anymore. Augh.

[silken]

Maybe someone else will reply with some ideas. Physan is likely stronger than Listerine and cinnamon. We can't get it in Canada so I don't get to use it. But I think anything you apply will only treat the surface and so if there is rot further in, it will just keep spreading. You may just have to replace it with a new health plant! But I know, I just hate losing a plant.

Why don't you treat it with Listerine in the meantime and hopefully very soon, some others will see this and offer their opinion about cutting it away. I fear the answer will be to "cut" tho

As for the other dark bump. It's hard to say. If it is protruding and solid, I wouldn't remove it. Some roots are very purple when they start out. But I find it is usually my phals that have a purple or pink bloom and the leaves are more purply too. Your plant looks quite green. Maybe give that a day or two to see what comes of it.

[invar]

Argh! Just looked at it this morning and there was some mold fuzz on some parts of the stumpy area! I gently cleaned off the fuzz and pat the thing dry and put some cinnamon on the exposed parts, careful to make sure it didn't get on the good root...

Why am I getting moldy fuzz again? It's in a fairly sunny area, and the weather the last few days has been between 65-85 from night to day.

Should I maybe put something in the water sitting at the bottom? A tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide? Bleach?

Am I really going to have to shell out for physan 20? I don't think I can find it locally, so I'm going to have to fork over the money for shipping for a tiny bottle of it if this is the case.



Thanks for any input.

[silken]

Why not try Listerine? A couple of bucks and found locally

[ELORCHID]

I had a very similar phal that I am happy to say has survived, but it took a lot of work. This is what I did.
Used hydrogen peroxde in the rotted area at least 3x a week until I saw that the rot was gone.
Submerged the two roots that my plant had left in water (15-30 minutes) at least a couple of times a day, making sure that no water got in between the leaves.
I also wrapped a piece of damp paper towel around the base of the plant, just below the lowest leaf and just above the highest root to encourage root growth.
Make sure the roots are wet before you apply any fertilizer, if you apply any at all at this point. I burned some new roots that my plant was trying to produce by fertilizing dry roots.
Whenever my plant wasn't being watered or wrapped with a damp paper towel I kept it over a vase with water at the bottom, kinda like you have it on your fourth photo, except the vase I used tapered at the top so that it would stay humid inside the vase.
I did this until I saw new roots forming and when the new roots were a couple of inches long I potted my plant in sphagnum in a 3" pot.
After the roots had almost filled the pot I repotted it in a bark mix.
I also tried not to stress my plat even further by giving it too much light, I kept it in the far end of the bench where I keep my phals and as it got more roots I increased the light.
I don't know if any of this makes sense to you, I am no expert, but this is what I did, hope this helps.
Here's a couple of pictures of what my plant looks like now, its got some buds that should bloom in the next few weeks.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I highly recommend putting the damaged Phal in a covered reptile tank or a covered fish tank with ventilation with lights over it. You can increase the humidity by putting potting soil as a substrate. You may even decide to turn the reptile tank or fish tank into a vivarium with some plants that can tolerate lots of moisture and very high humidity.

It is absolutely NOT necessary to use a bag to save your Phal. The goal to shoot for is humidity that drops no lower than 70%. High humidity is what made your Phal produce roots. To ensure that you have better control over your Phal's recovery environment it is recommended to use a fish tank or reptile tank, versus a bag.

What you're experiencing now, is why I don't do the sphag and bag method of saving a damaged Phal anymore. When you perform the sphag and bag method, what you came across is the more likely outcome.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I also highly recommend checking out the sticky "The Phal abuse ends here."