Wet roots on my Phal?

[whitetshirtguy]

Hello everybody!
I'm new here and I'm new to orchids in general, and I have no experience at all on either orchids or gardening.
A few days ago I decided to try keeping an orchid, so I went to a nice place here in Brazil and got the one I thought looked best. It's a Phalaenopsis Nivacolor.
It came on a plastic vase with draining holes just on the bottom. I placed the vase on a little plate because I don't want my desk to get all wet. That's ok, right?
It has some green roots coming out upwards from the media. Now here's my question:
When I first watered it, a couple of days ago, I noticed there are a couple of roots coming out from the draining holes at the bottom of the vase. These roots, unlike the upper ones, are brown and weird. I read somewhere that the roots shouldn't be too moist, because they can rot, but since they're on the bottom, I'm placing the vase on top of them and they're always in contact with the drained water that goes to the plate. Is that normal? Should I cut them out?

Here's a picture:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4389/img0054vq.jpg

Thanks in advance for your help,
W.

[BobInBonita]

Welcome to Orchid Board.

Check out the "sticky" thread above for all sorts of info.

In my opinion wet roots and overwatering are the reasons most beginners (and many experts) have trouble. A big contributing factor is the media that they are grown in.

The roots that are hanging out do not look healthy, but I can't tell if they've been damaged or if they are rotten.

The media looks VERY dark and wet. It may be decomposing and holding too much water, but it is hard to tell in the picture.

I would recommend that you read the post above to get a better basis for action. Then I would recommend that you pull the plant out of the pot and inspect the roots and medium. If there is ANY sign of rot or decomposing medium, repot the plant NOW. Look for the various methods people use to judge when a plant needs watering (like weight of the pot, a skewer stuck in the medium, etc). Whatever you do, I would put something between your saucer and the pot so any roots that come out are not in standing water.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

[whitetshirtguy]

Thanks a lot for the answer!
I've read the Phal's FAQs, but I'm still not sure about what to do on my specific case.
I took some better pictures of it:
ImageShack Album - 7 images
(If you keep clicking on the picture you can see it real big)

I don't know if the roots on the bottom are rotten, but I can't imagine them getting much worse than that. To my layman's eyes the rest of the plant looks pretty good, though... except for some of the aerial roots close to the crown, which are slightly brown (you can see it in the pictures) and a broken leaf.

I have watered it today, so the media is actually pretty wet, but I don't know if it's holding more water than it should. I try sticking a pencil to it to see if it needs watering, but even now, just a few hours since I've last watered, the pencil comes out almost dry. I can see the wet bark on the walls of the plastic pot, though. Should I wait for that to dry before watering again? The guy at the store told me to water it twice a week.

So now I'll do what you said and take it out of the pot, but what should I do with the bottom (rotten?) roots then? When I put the plant back on the pot, can I just do it in a way that these roots stay inside? Should I cut them out? Use cinnamon? Do something else?

And when you say "repot the plant NOW", can I just change the media and put it back on the same pot?
Anything else I'm missing?

Thank you so much for your help!

W.

[BobInBonita]

Just like people say "you can't judge a book by its cover", you can't judge an orchids health by its leaves and flowers. The roots are VERY important to judge how its growing. Orchids will frequently send up spikes as a last ditch effort to propagate before dieing. I don't think that your plant is at that point, but I do recommend that you look at the roots.

When you use the pencil, you can't just push it in and pull it out. You leave it in for a while to let it equilibrate with the media around it. It is a waste of time to do it right after watering because you know it's wet. Do it just before you plan to water next time.

Healthy roots in the medium are generally tan to light brown, and are firm and plump. If they are mushy, they are rotten. If they are black or dark brown they are probably mushy. If they are VERY thin and wiry they are totally rotten away and only the central fiber is left. Cut off any rotten roots.

Aerial roots that are happy look like yours do. A brown spot every now and then may be sign of past damage or insect attack. If the root is white on both sides of the damage and firm, it should be ok. If it is "floppy" at the point of damage I would cut it off because it isn't going to send water to the plant past the floppy point.

How often you water depends on several factors. Plants in low humidity dry out faster than plants in high humidity. Plants in moss dry out slowly, plants in bark dry more rapidly. Plants in rock or LECA dry out even more quickly. Plants grown bare root dry out very quickly. Plants in fibrous mixes vary considerably depending on the exact fiber and how tightly it is packed. All organic media dries more slowly as it ages and starts to decompose. There is no magic rule on how often to water. You have to figure out your conditions and base your watering on that.

Many growers like plastic pots like yours because they can see what is happening. I like clay pots and/or wooden slat baskets because they allow for more rapid drying. In my conditions I need that.

You can re-use your pot if you want, but wash and sanitize it, especially if there were signs of rot.

I almost always repot a new plant when I get it so I know when it was repotted and so it is in a medium that I know and am familiar with. It is easier to judge how dry it is when you are familiar with it. Using the same medium when you are starting is important so you can learn how it dries and how long it lasts. When you are familiar with one medium, then you can experiment.

The only time I do not repot a new plant is when I am sure about the medium just by looking at it (it looks REALLY fresh) and the plant is in bloom. The more manipulation you do on the roots the more likely it is that the buds will blast (fall off). In my opinion it is better to risk bud blast than to chance major root rot and loosing the plant.

As Forest Gump said "that's about all I have to say about that". Hope it helps and others chime in. We all do things a little differently, so it is important to listen to all opinions and choose the one that matches your conditions and care habits the best.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

From the photo, it looks like the Phal is being grown in Sphagnum moss. I highly recommend against using full on Sphagnum moss as a potting medium, as most people usually fail with this potting medium for a few reasons.

Reason #1: Sphagnum can be highly acidic, with a pH of about 3.5. The pH can be much lower if it starts to break down into peat.

Remember pH is an exponential function, not a linear function.

Reason #2: Sphagnum moss has a high level of water retention.

Live Shagnum moss usually grow in very wet environments and are highly adapted to absorbing water in a soggy habitat without rotting out easily and dying. Dead Shagnum still retains the ability to absorb lots of water.

This high level of water retention will often rot the roots out for something like a Phal.

Phals grow in environments that are moist a good majority of the time, but they often do not occur on trees that are covered in moss. The moss is very sparse. Therefore, they're not used to a lot of water being retained for such long periods of time.

Reason #3: The air circulation in a pot is still somewhat limited despite all those slots and holes. This will lead to the ability for the pot to aid in the retention of water in the potting medium.

While Phals grow in areas where it is moist most of the times, there is still a large amount of air the roots are receiving.

Further explanation of combination of reason #2 and reason # 3:

Because the roots are not being exposed to the air like it is in the wild, and because the Sphagnum is retaining a lot of moisture over a long period of time, this can result in a few things...

Result #1: The excessive moisture can make the vacuoles in the cell to expand so much that the cells can burst and die.

Result #2: The excessive moisture can make the roots suffocate. Plants can breathe from their roots, and epiphytes such as Phals are no exception.

Result #3: As I've mentioned in the sticky, the roots of most epiphytical orchids can photosynthesize. Phals clearly have roots that are fully capable of photosynthesis. As a result, they have chloroplasts.

With this explanation - it can be concluded that in the case of over watering...

Chlorosis can occur. This is due to the chloroplasts dying quite possibly from the vacuoles taking up so much space that they can't function properly.

Result #4: I don't know if you know this, but orchid roots are routinely invaded by certain types of fungi. When these fungi form a symbiotic partnership with the plant, they're called mycorrhizal fungi.

Sometimes, when the conditions favor the fungi because the cells of the roots are badly damaged, the fungi can over run the roots and further kill the roots.

Result #5: Invading fungi or bacteria that don't have any kind of symbiotic relationship with the plant can cause further damage to the weakened or dying roots.


To further answer your question...

The roots that are sticking out of the underside of the pot are dead.

In terms of horticultural practices, no living roots should ideally be in contact with standing pools of water at all.


Yes, as "BobInBonita" had said, your potting media (Sphagnum) is breaking down. As was mentioned, Sphagnum can break down into peat. Peat is not only highly acidic in pH, but it also has a fine consistency similar to top soil. When Sphagnum breaks down into peat, the fine debris can restrict air getting to the roots. Peat can sometimes even retain even more water than sphagnum can. These might be some things to take into consideration.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I highly recommend checking this video out of a Phalaenopsis species in-situ:

Video: Phalaenopsis in situ | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I also highly recommend checking out this photo of Phalaenopsis bellina in-situ:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_F4h2El7hQQo/Sy...at%5B12%5D.jpg

Another group of Phals in-situ:

http://www.ibanorum.netfirms.com/Lundu-orchid190207.jpg


The word "in-situ" means "in site" or roughly translated "on site".

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Btw, Phals are epiphytes.

Epi - surface

Phyte - plant

Epiphyte: "Surface plant"; or the rough concept would be - "plant that grows on the surfaces of trees".


Just in case you wanted to know...

Sphagnum moss is a true moss (Bryophyta). The name Sphagnum is the genus name of this group of mosses.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I also highly recommend looking up words you don't understand in either a dictionary, a glossary (the OB has one btw), or Wikipedia.

You may also just ask in a post.

[whitetshirtguy]

Awesome!
Thank you so much for all your help!
I used the pencil right after watering to be able to compare the pencil inserted in a wet plant from the pencil inserted in a dry one. From what I'm reading, though, it seems mine has never been dry.
And since I speak portuguese, which derives from vulgar latin, it's kind of easy to understand most words that I didn't know by now.

So now I will take the plant out of the pot, clean the roots and repot it.
I'll get a clay pot with holes on the sides, that's a good idea, right? And from what I've read I'll get rid of the sphagnum. Since it seems that my phal has been overwatered for a while, even before I got it (4 days ago, and I don't think I could have caused so much damage on that time), is it a good idea to just plant it on rocks or maybe little rocks mixed with some bark? Would something else be better? It would not be a problem for me having to water it more often.
Also, I think the weather here is pretty humid.
Here's the humidity forecast for today:
06am: 100%
09am: 99%
12pm: 52%
03pm: 48%
06pm: 74%
09pm: 92%

And how urgent is all this? Should I take the orchid out of the pot and leave it's roots bare until I have the time to go get a new pot and new media (about a week)? Or should I leave it as it is until then and just repot it when I have all the stuff already?
If it's not that urgent, those little buds are growing really fast, I think they'll be in bloom in less than a month. Could I wait for that so that I won't ruin them by messing with the roots?

Thanks again for your great advice,
W.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Bark is good enough for a potting media.

It's generally recommended to get the potting media first before attempting to repot.