The Phal abuse ends here.

[Sekhmet]

Originally Posted by Jeffery

I wish I could have some of your dumb luck, I sure have lost some very nice Phals, I looked at some the other day that I liked a lot, but I turned head and walked away

I wish I could give you some! Really, I am pretty hands-off with all of my 'chids...I find the more that I fiddle with them, the worse they do.

Good luck on your quest with your Phals. Are the roots dried up and shrived, or soft and rotted? Either can lead to wrinkled, wilted leaves.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by calypsoB

To the King- Csn you please tell me how you did this? The roots look phenominal! I have one phal heading down a bad road that I would love to save!

In this particular case, I was fortunate enough to receive the Phals with enough good root stock to pull this off, regardless of how the leaves looked. I didn't choose or select the specimens I purchased, the seller did.

However...

If I had the option of choosing my own specimens, first and foremost, I look for plants with a good amount of good, living roots. The roots don't necessarily have to be picture perfect, but there has to be a good number of roots (ideally at least 5 or more substantially healthy, living roots).

Next, I look at the leaves. If they have signs of crown rot, I avoid them. If they have signs of more than 2 yellowing older leaves, I avoid them.

But, let's say you didn't have a choice, like what happened to me in this scenario, and you ended up with a Phal with no crown rot, a good set of roots, but a substantial amount of leaf damage - enough to warrant the plant to drop the leaves...

Don't panic!

Put it in an area, or a terrarium, or something, where the humidity is moderate to high most of the times (anywhere between 75% - 100% is perfect). Be aware that the goal is to provide enough high humidity to initiate new growth, whether it be new roots, or new leaves. It is crucial that you take precautions to avoid fungal infections on the plant itself in these highly humid environments, or it defeats the purpose!

As a note:

The above mentioned is the basic principal that is behind the "sphag and bag method".

Realistically speaking, you don't need to put your ailing Phal specifically in a bag (which in my opinion has a higher probability of rotting the ailing plant out because the environment is rather poorly controlled).

Make sure the amount of light it receives is adequate enough for the Phal to photosynthesize, or even better, see if you can provide the maximum (or close to it) amount of light the particular species can handle. Utilizing a light meter takes much of the guess work out of this matter and allows for better control of the environment. It is not necessary to utilize a light meter for this purpose, it is just a recommendation.

Fertilize when appropriate, in adequate concentrations (don't go overboard - it is safer to go a little under the maximum concentration of fertilizer the plant can handle than to overdo it). You have to feel this out, but going by 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended concentration of the manufacturer's label at every fertilization period is generally the safest bet. The generally accepted guideline for the timeframe/frequency of fertilization is about once every 2 weeks at the aforementioned recommended concentration. A general guideline for the N-P-K fertilizer ratio of roughly 20-20-20 is good enough, it doesn't have to be too much higher than the mentioned values for any of the given macro-nutrients in the ratio. Again, the N-P-K ratio doesn't have to precisely be 20-20-20. Should the N-P-K ratio be precisely 20-20-20 it is fine. Ideally, the type of nitrogen used for the fertilizer is either ammoniacal or nitrate nitrogen, not urea based nitrogen (despite the fact that scientific studies do support that at least for plants in the genus Phalaenopsis, they can absorb urea based nitrogen). Be aware that scientific studies do not necessarily support that all other species or genera of orchids are able to efficiently absorb urea for their source of nitrogen.

Water the plant adequately, continue to monitor its well-being, and wait!

The plant will do everything else for you when the time comes.


Any specific questions or further clarification regarding what I just said is welcome.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Okay, guys...

I just thought I'd attempt to take the mystery out of why I was able to get my Phal to do what it's doing, even further.

As a disclaimer - my explanation is according to what I currently understand to be true in respect to what I have formally and/or informally learned.

For those of you who are not familiar with botany and botanical terms in relation to plant anatomy, there needs some explanation of what's up.

All plants have what are called meristem tissue.

A meristem is basically a series of undifferentiated plant tissues, made of cells that have a general function versus a specific one.

Undifferentiated tissues basically means, that the tissues can eventually become a specific part of the plant once chemical responses kicks in and tells those cells to start becoming more and more specialized.

I'll use a rough analogy so that people can understand...

You know how a human fetus starts off with little nubbins on its sides that will eventually form a baby's hands?

Those little nubbins are sort of like the plant's meristem tissues, in that they don't perform a specific function nor form a specific physical form, yet.

This meristem tissue must be alive in order for new shoots, new roots, or new leaves to appear out of a Phal (for example) with living roots and without leaves.

Why?

The roots are alive and well, so they continue to perform their roles.

The leaves may be gone, but there is still the tiny little meristem tissue hidden within the dead petioles of the Phal.

Because the roots are still alive and functioning, they provide the meristem tissue with the water and nutrients it needs to continue surviving (nutrients can be provided via the fertilizers it absorbs through the roots, as well as the photosynthesis that the roots are still able to perform).

Note: Remember, the green pigmentation within the roots of a Phal (or any other plant or orchid for that matter), is chlorophyll. If there's cholophyll, there're chloroplasts. Which means they can perform the task of photosynthesis, to some degree or another.

Over time, if all is well, and the meristem grows and the cells in the tissue start to differentiate, you just might see new growth in the form of either new roots or new leaves, depending on what chemical cues the cells are receiving.

Those chemical cues, btw, are the plant's naturally produced phytohormones.


Keep in mind that I'm pretty aware of all this to some degree or another, and that's why I didn't panic or get sad and throw the plant out.

Note to anybody who understands this principal better:

If at any point in my explanation I did not get it fully correct or something, please, by all means add to it, or correct it to make it much more accurate or precise.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Additional info on phytohormones (according to my current understanding of what I had formally and/or informally learned):


Although specific phytohormones don't necessarily give undifferentiated cells extremely specific chemical cues to form ultra-specific functions at all times, every time. There are a few general concepts that are generally accepted by the scientific community regarding the general roles of phytohormones.

Those are:


1. The general group of phytohormones that are categorized and fall into what are generally called auxins, usually, largely influence undifferentiated cells to form tissues that are associated in the formation of what are recognized as root structures.

2. The general group of phytohormones that are categorized and fall into what are generally called cytokinins, usually, largely influence undifferentiaed cells to form tissues that are associated in the formation of what are generally recognized as stem and/or leaf structures.

To keep things somewhat "clear cut and simple", I'll leave it at this.

Further questions or clarifications, don't hesitate to ask or comment.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Special note:

The Phal species in the photos that is recovering from leaf damage is Phalaenopsis appendiculata.

I've found this species to be particularly frustrating to grow properly outside of a very humid environment (ideally the humidity should go nothing below 70%) where the temperature doesn't go below 60 F or 65 F.

If you all pay particularly close attention to detail, there is a certain way I grow this particular species mounted, and the only way to pull this specific method of mounted culture off correctly with this species, is to grow it in a very humid environment where the humidity is not lower than 70%, even if it is in perfect health. Should the humidity be lower than 70%, and the Phal appendiculata is mounted like how mine are mounted, the roots can quickly shrivel up and die.

I'm currently growing 2 specimens of Phal appendiculata in a heavily planted tank with my 2 Keeled Slug Snakes (Pareas carinatus).


I posted this information to put things into perspective a bit, in respect to how I achieved what I did, growing the type of Phal I'm growing, mounted the way it is.

With many other types of Phals, it is not necessary to grow them in as humid of an environment as that needed to properly grow Phal appendiculata when they are in good health, even when these other types of Phals are mounted. But it definitely doesn't hurt them either.

But keep in mind, if anybody tries to grow other types of Phals mounted in a similar fashion as how I grow my Phal appendiculata, but in a moderately humid area (50% - 60% RH) pay very close attention to how the roots are doing to see if they're showing signs of dessication or not.

[calypsoB]

Thanks! I have mounted this orchidm and increased it's humidity in the case it's in. The roots don't look quite so wrinkled now, but they are not as beautiful as what you've got as they still have black spots. I'll post some pics of it on threat saving a dying phal.

[StefH]

Originally Posted by OrchidMolly

hmmm..thanks for this info... I will investigate. Thanks very much!

Molly,

Just wondering what the status of this is? Did you figure out what is growing from the pot?

Is there a chance that you had more than one potted plant tossed outside and what you've brought into the house to try to resurrect isn't your orchid at all, but another plant that was thrown outside?

I'm curious to see what happens with your plant!

[Tim P.]

I have killed one phal because of crown rot, bought it not knowing it and then it showed up... then the first one that i got (1 out of 2) had a disease on it and it also died...

am i having a really bad case of luck here? im really dissapointed... i really want to grow an phal orchid like Kelidescope.

The only access i have to orchids is Walmart pretty much so I what should I do? How should i take care of a phal and is walmart ok? should i just forget an orchid all together ?


first orchid was a whtie just add ice, second was a Sin Yuan Golden Beauty, stinking expencive!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Tim P.

I have killed one phal because of crown rot, bought it not knowing it and then it showed up... then the first one that i got (1 out of 2) had a disease on it and it also died...

am i having a really bad case of luck here? im really dissapointed... i really want to grow an phal orchid like Kelidescope.

The only access i have to orchids is Walmart pretty much so I what should I do? How should i take care of a phal and is walmart ok? should i just forget an orchid all together ?


first orchid was a whtie just add ice, second was a Sin Yuan Golden Beauty, stinking expencive!

Have you read the posts at the beginning yet?

Posting pics of the plant if you have them helps too.

[Tim P.]

I dont have the plants anymore due to the fact that they died...

Should i get a new one or not? and how can i improve my orchids lifespan to the expectancy of mine

I really hated it when i lost my "golden beauty"