Issue w/ dying phal and attached keiki

[Paul Mc]

I've been fighting one of my phal's since spring last year when the roots got infected. It has been slowly dying since then. On the last bloom spike, it started growing a keiki around summer. The keiki now has three leaves, the longest is about 3 1/2 inches long and it has a bloom spike starting off of it with 3 huge flower buds.

The problem is that the keiki does not have any roots yet, and I just noticed today that the mother plant's top and best looking leaf (which was sad already) has folded itself over and is preparing to die. I examined the roots and they are all dead and diseased looking.

On the spike with the keiki, it appears that the node just below the keiki has growth on it as well now!

So, since my keiki doesn't have roots and it appears to be impossible to save the mother, how do I ensure that I don't lose the keiki. My concern is that with no roots it won't be able to survive. Is this an accurate concern, or will the dying mother force the keiki to produce roots of its own? Should I cut off the flower spike (I'm almost in tears thinking about that, lol...).

[Call_Me_Bob]

i might try leaving the keiki on until the plant goes kaput and then cutting the spike off before it dies to and putting the spike in a glass of water. thats the only thing i can think of, but i have not tried it

[Daethen]

You may want to cut the spike off of the keiki so that it doesn't put any energy into flowering. That may produce roots.

[Sienna]

I have a similar issue with some Den's. I thought they were gone, but as a last ditch effort i cut off all the dead roots and canes and put them in a pot of sphag. I have been supprised how many are producing kikki's (some are growing from canes that dont even have roots!). I am still quite new to orchid growing, but I have been impressed by how much a kikki can grow when the 'parent' plant seems well past it.
Sooo... my point is it still may product roots.

Love to hear how you go.

[Paul Mc]

Interesting, so I guess I should go ahead and clean up the roots (a.k.a. remove them all as none are healthy) from the mother plant?

[Call_Me_Bob]

i would. the lroots are dead it wouldnt hurt anything

[BobInBonita]

I'm trying to understand why the keiki hasn't put out roots to this point. It definitely sounds large and healthy enough.

What is your humidity?

The keiki must be getting enough nourishment to grow (and even spike) from the dying mother plant. Would drying out the mother help force the keiki to "look elsewhere" for nutrition?

Are your growing conditions such that other orchids are actively growing and putting out new roots? If not can you raise temp and humidity a bit to simulate spring (and root growth)?

I think you have to decide what is more important to you. If you let the keiki bloom with no root system and a near dead mother, it is likely a goner. If the bloom is more important, enjoy them (if it blooms before the mother expires). If the keiki is more important, cut the spike.

[Paul Mc]

I will cut off the roots on the mother then.

I'm not sure what the actual humidity is at this point, I just bought a hygrometer to begin monitoring this around all my orchids (especially the three that have a few issues at the moment).

I actually recently repotted the mother in a sphag and perlite mix, lightly packed, due to mold in the original material that was killing the mother initially. She has held on for about two months until now. I moved the plant out of the semi-direct light source (west window) into a more deeply shaded area away from the cold and light of the window. I have another phal in the exact same window that gets more light and it's doing tremendous (3 flower spikes and tons of new root growth)! My concern is that the dying phal is now in a somewhat direct line of the heater vent from the ceiling. But I guess this could simulate the spring environment in regards to heat and increase the humidity by evaporating water in the humidity tray more. What do you guys think about that?

I have watered it once a week since repotting, but have noticed that the sphag is completely dry all the way through when I water. I water on Saturday and it is thoroughly dry by Wednesday. I do refill the humidity tray on Wed's for all my orchids as well. I did this on purpose to try and force the keiki to produce roots, but to no avail.

I would have to say the keiki is more important at this point as it is one of my favorite phal's with huge flowers.

Could I take a damp cloth to the base of the keiki 3 times a day to try and tell it to reach out for the water on it's stalk?

[brush]

You really do have a dilema on your hands Paul . I once had a keiki growing from the spike on a mature phal . It was root bare for quite a long time and I too was afraid I would lose it before it got a chance to grow the roots . So what I did was to dab a drop or two of water with a cotton swab at the base of the keiki two or three times a day for at least a couple of weeks . After awhile a bump appeared around the base where the roots are supposed to come out and grow . You could try that on yours to see if that works before the mother plant expires.

[BobInBonita]

It wont hurt at all to try dabbing water on the keikis base. I'm really surprised that sphagnum dries through to the inside that fast. Even when I lived in Minnesota I didn't see things dry that quickly (especially with sphagnum).

There's no guarantee, but if it were me...

I would go for the warmer conditions.

Warmer conditions will drop the RH (that's why it's relative) unless you do something else.

I personally don't think humidity trays do anything at all. ANY air movement disperses the humidity instantly and you have the same room humidity as the rest of the room. You mentioned you have purchased a hygrometer - check the humidity yourself at different places - in the room, a few inches above the tray, and as close as you can get. I doubt you'll see any meaningful difference. If you do, please post your results so I can correct my thinking.

I would try to build an enclosure to contain humidity around the plant. A simple frame covered by the clear window insulation they sell up North. Leave some openings for air flow and care. Use your new hygrometer to check what's happening inside, In Ontario this time of year I'll bet your home RH is 40% or less. Inside the enclosure try for 70-80%. If you're low - make it tighter, if you're high - give it more air flow. You don't want to get so high that mold becomes a problem.

Adjust your watering for the more humid conditions. Your media should not dry out nearly as rapidly in a more humid environment.

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes and what seemed to work and what didn't. We all think our advice is perfect until we hear differently.