Miltonia and backbulbs. - Orchid Board

Mikeg · #1 01-01-2011, 05:02 PM

Hey guys and gals! Happy new year! So, I need your urgent help. This Miltonia (Milt. Jean Sabourin 'Vulcain' AM/AOS) has been slowly dying the last couple months and I decided to un-pot it and see what was going on. Turned out to be rotted roots was causing it to turn yellown and lose a lot of leaves (would turn yellow then dry up and turn brown and pop off) but it only happened one at a time. So, after un potting it I divided into individual bulbs and cut off all the dead roots. There were still live roots on the sides and all had a couple leaves left. Now after a week, 2 of three have lost the rest of the leaves on the bulbs, and the last ones leaves have all turned yellow. I put in in smaller pots and in a plastic bag with out any noticeable difference within this week of trying to save it. So my questions are: Is there anything else I can do? And...Can I start new plants from the leafless bulbs? I put it on a shelf in our saltwater tank with compact flourescents and metal halides to hopefully get it to think its summer and growing season. Can you guys please help me save one of my favorite orchid? Thank you in advance!

RosieC · #2 01-02-2011, 07:41 AM

There has been some discussion in the past about propergating from backbulbs. My understanding is that the backbulb needs to have a dormant 'eye' that can be triggered into growth, if there is no dormant eye then it can't be used.

To be honest I would not have seperated the bulbs unless there was no other choice. The more bulbs together, the more stored energy the group has and the more chance of dormant eyes in the group. However I believe it's quite possible from single bulbs and some people will try and grow discarded ones from re-potting/dividing a bigger plant.

I struck lucky with an almost dead Zygo. Two leafless/rootless bulbs were barely held together and seperated on their own with even delicate handling. Both have started growing (altough the larger one is doing a lot better than the smaller one) and both now have roots on the new growth.

All I did with mine was put then with the base pokeing into the medium, watered ocasionally but sparingly (making sure the water ran over the base of the bulbs and out through the bottom of the pot). Not long after they started shoots I transfered them to lecca and a S/H style techique and they seem to have loved the constantly damp but airy medium that provided. I think it was luck more than anything else though.

RosieC · #3 01-02-2011, 07:49 AM

I've found this link which is to a site about propergation from backbulbs. It's meant to be a good site for info on doing this.

Orchid backbulbs

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #4 01-02-2011, 01:46 PM

Propagation through singular backbulbs usually works well primarily with Cymbidiums, Eulophia, Cycnoches, Catasetum, and Mormodes (there might be a few more, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head). As Rosie had stated, there must be at least 1 dormant eye, the more the better.

Singular backbulb propagation with Miltonia, Miltoniopsis, and Oncidiums with pseudobulbs is not recommended. They usually don't have enough energy to pull through.

With Zygopetalum, I recommend at least 2 medium or large sized backbulbs (with dormant eyes).

Cattleyas and Laelias, at least 3 or 4 backbulbs, again with dormant eyes.

If I may recommend something...

I believe you're talking about Miltoniopsis. Try using clear plastic pots.

Mltps and Milt grow a little differently from each other.

True Milts can tolerate being drier better.

Mikeg · #5 01-02-2011, 08:57 PM

It's a Miltonia....... At least I hope it is, because that is what the tag said. Thank you rosie for the link! I think I will use the sphag and bag method and hope for the best. All these bulbs did have new growth but all the new growth has died, so I'm gonna try again. Thanks again!

silken · #6 01-02-2011, 09:52 PM

Hi Michael,
I was Googling Milt. Jean Sabourin 'Vulcain' AM/AOS and from the photos, it is most likely a Miltoniopsis. Miltonias look somewhat different. Miltoniopsis have the flat pansy look and greyish green leaves and tightly clumped pseudobulbs. The term Miltonia is thrown around very loosely and is not always used correctly. They used to all be classified as Miltonias until the Miltoniopsis were split into their own group but I believe for awards, etc. they are still called Miltonias. The one you have would be less heat and drought tolerant than the true miltonias. But because they have fine roots, they can get root rot easily too. They do well in loose well draining potting media and some growers have great success with mostly sphagnum and a few bits of sponge rock. They don't like to be completely dry for long, but not sitting in soggy media either. I hope that helps. good luck with saving it. what about a bit of KLN or some sort of rooting hormone and then sphag and bag??

RosieC · #7 01-03-2011, 05:45 AM

Mike, I was going to say pretty much what Silken has said. Miltonia is often used on the tag even when it's a Miltoniopsis. The care is different though so it's worth making the distinction.

The international orchid register has Jean Sabourin recorded as a Miltoniopsis with a synonym genus name of Miltonia. The International Orchid Register / RHS Gardening

beanluc · #8 01-03-2011, 04:25 PM

Not to hijack, this may be just a little offtopic but very interesting I hope.

I had a miltassia backbulb push up a keiki last summer!

Unfortunately it was eaten by pests. But a big backbulb on a plant that had been aggressively divided and was otherwise growing fine, had a tiny sprout of leaf-fan on its top! It was growing out of where the bulb's original leaves had fallen off the year before. The sprout didn't survive long enough for me to see whether it would make roots.

King_of_orchid_growing:) · #9 01-03-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanluc

Not to hijack, this may be just a little offtopic but very interesting I hope.

I had a miltassia backbulb push up a keiki last summer!

Unfortunately it was eaten by pests. But a big backbulb on a plant that had been aggressively divided and was otherwise growing fine, had a tiny sprout of leaf-fan on its top! It was growing out of where the bulb's original leaves had fallen off the year before. The sprout didn't survive long enough for me to see whether it would make roots.

It's not really off topic. You're talking about an Onc relative. We're kinda on that topic, just not the intergeneric Miltassia.

I've personally never had what you had happen with you occur to me yet. Doesn't mean that possibility doesn't exist. I also did and do try to avoid using definite remarks about the habits of orchids as much as I can. Sometimes they're just a bit unpredictable like how your plant demonstrated.

What you had happen to your Miltassia backbulb, is something I may not have experienced firsthand, but I'm aware of it. I've seen pics of that phenomenon online.

The word "usually" is not the same as "is" or "certain", etc. You get it.

If what a person on the OB says is not clear feel free to ask for a clarification. It's far better than assuming things.

Depending on the situation, opinions, thoughts, or ideas may change given new information that challenges them. Flexibility is key.

If you feel you got a good contribution to make, I say go ahead and say it.

Mikeg · #10 01-03-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silken

Hi Michael,
I was Googling Milt. Jean Sabourin 'Vulcain' AM/AOS and from the photos, it is most likely a Miltoniopsis. Miltonias look somewhat different. Miltoniopsis have the flat pansy look and greyish green leaves and tightly clumped pseudobulbs. The term Miltonia is thrown around very loosely and is not always used correctly. They used to all be classified as Miltonias until the Miltoniopsis were split into their own group but I believe for awards, etc. they are still called Miltonias. The one you have would be less heat and drought tolerant than the true miltonias. But because they have fine roots, they can get root rot easily too. They do well in loose well draining potting media and some growers have great success with mostly sphagnum and a few bits of sponge rock. They don't like to be completely dry for long, but not sitting in soggy media either. I hope that helps. good luck with saving it. what about a bit of KLN or some sort of rooting hormone and then sphag and bag??

Well, POOP!!! This was one of my favorite ones and thought it would live longer because of the heat. I have never killed an orchid and if this one doesnt go through i will have.... :'( This really sucks. I must say that while tearing off old dried leaves at the bottom of a bulb there was a tiny new sprout so I am praying to the high lord above to save this orchid and help me not to ever kill an orchid! I'm sorry for venting like this. Thank you silken for looking this up, I must admit though that I'm pretty bummed that it's a miltoniopsis because this guy seems like a guy that would lie to his customers like this! And thank you everyone for all your help. Oh, and silken...I don't have KLN or don't really know where to look for some....Thanks for the suggestion.