How do you recommend growing cool growers?

[Wrebbitrocks]

Hi y'all,
Every time of tried growing some of the cool growing genuses they end up dying because there is no way i can bring down the temp of my house past 85 in the middle of summer when its 110 outside. they do fine in winter then comes spring and it goes downhill from there. this has included any miltoniopsis odontoglossums or masdies ive tried.

so my question is, whats a good setup to keep the orchids cool. one of the growers i bought from recommended ice 2 ice cubes on the media surface everyday to keep the rrots cool. i have also tried putting them near the a/c vents (dried them out) and in darker cooler areas (not enough light) and keeping them in a very humid tank with a florescent light (mold grew on them) to no avail.

can you guys lend a hand at getting a nice setup that will allow me to grow cool growers? also maybe some recommended easy growers for you guys.

right now i've my eyes set upon many milts like maui sunset, odontoglossum types like oda. george mcmahon, and some of the masdevallias like urosalpinx (constricta) and ignea. another one i want is sophronitis coccinea 4N form but the vendors ive found have them VERY expensive and im not ready to fork over big money for something il kill. much appreciated guys! thanks

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I'm surprised you're having a tough time with Miltoniopsis with a temperature of 85 F!

Air circulation is key, but not from an A/C vent. Try a fan instead. Or an evaporative cooler.

Night temperatures dropping at least 20 degrees is also helpful. So maybe kicking them outdoors at night could work.

Also...

Maybe it's not the temperatures...

Perhaps it's something else like root problems...idk.

Miltoniopsis can handle warm temperatures very nicely, but the air circulation must be superb and the night temperatures must drop significantly. At least, that's what I've experienced.

[Wrebbitrocks]

really? hmm. idk. the leaves get really leathery and limp at 85 then the whole plant is gone in a couple of days. i dont think it was roots. i checked before anything else and they were fine. im thinking maybe the air is just too dry. idk. 85 does seem like a good temp for them because its not too cold or hot and it did get cooler at night. maybe it was just the growers excuse not to refund the money. they said that the plants were too stressed and that they cant go above the 70's

[Gin]

My Miltoniopsis grow in the greenhouse along with other types sounds like there is something else going on .
I have to bring the Masdes in the house they are infracia and crosses of it supposed to be warmth tolerant, key word tolerant if to hot they will lose leaves .
I think considering where you live it will be a problem with the true cool growing Masdies .unless you can grow in a cooled case of some kind . Gin

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

"Leathery and limp"? At 85 F?

That's not right. Miltoniopsis can tolerate it up to the 90's F with no problems at all!

Gin is right, there's probably something else going on.

Do you have photos?

For you, Masdevallia ignea is probably not a good idea right now. If you can do the whole cool to cold Wardian case thing, then okay.

I think you should focus on what happened to your Miltoniopsis! That shouldn't have been a problem for you.

[WhiteRabbit]

are they getting morning sun? afternoon? what exposure are they growing in?
I know my Milt and Oda can suffer in hot afternoon (or even mid-day sun when it's hot) but do fine with some early morning sun, then in shade. I have an Oda. that does very well in a northern window.
While my climate is dry - it's not as dry as AZ - maybe that is a factor as well ? It can be very low humidity here during hot days, but humidity always rises at night as temp drops ...

How often do you water? What media?

[Wrebbitrocks]

whenever ive had milts theyre always in some sort of bark/lava rock mix so it dries out FAST and i water them every 3-4 days because theyre dry by then. ive grown them in north and east exposure spritzing every day. odontoglossum types the same except in finer bark and water every 5-7 days sepending on how dry the mix was. the 2 masdevallias ive had were celtic frost and infracta and both were in slatted pots in fine bark and the inner wall of the pots were lined with spagh so it stayed moist.

like i said, i dont think the roots were ever a problem. the leaves on all just got soft brown areas that were dry and would fall off. the pbulbs on the milts get bright orange too. whenever id cut away the areas with the, well light tan, spots the die back would just continue from the cut. plus the foliage was always soft, never rigid and glossy like other plants. so im thinking the air is just SOOO dry here that the plants dessicate really fast. and the coolest i can get them to is 85 but the air still feels very warm. next time i plan on this:

aquarium with pebble bottom/leca to contribute to evaporative cooling and raise humidity since its within a tank, keep it in a cooler area of the house (maybe 70 degrees but NO light whatsoever) and use cool lighting like led to suplement th ighting or just put it in a north window on top of a laptop cooling dock and still add lighting. also add a muffin fan for air circulation

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

It's not the heat.

85 F is fine. I have Miltoniopsis phalaenopsis and it got to be 117 F these past few days here. It only came out with leaf tip die back. Everything else is fine.

What you're describing is quite possibly bacterial rot. Possibly Erwinia sp.

Without pics, I can't tell exactly.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Unless you're growing something from 2,600 m to 3,000 m, 85 F works just fine.

Masd infracta doesn't occur that high up.

Neither do Miltoniopsis.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

While we're on the subject of Erwinia sp. bacterial infections...

Here's what I've experienced of this bacteria so far:

1. Symptoms of bacterial infection and damage do not always show up right away.

A seemingly healthy looking plant may be completely infested with Erwinia, unbeknownst to the grower!

2. If the plant is showing symptoms of infection, there's probably much more damage done that is going on undetected.

3. The easiest way to "fish them out" and see most of the damage it's doing to the plant is to use liquid antibacterial dishwashing detergent.

4. It appears to have some resistance to Phyton 27 and Physan 20. So, again, you won't see the extent of the damage until it's too late.

5. Plants that have been heavily damaged, weak plants, or plants with soft leaves are especially susceptible to Erwinia infections.

6. Erwinia likes wet and stale conditions.

7. This bacteria is incredibly persistent and will not go away very easily.

8. It is highly contagious.