orchid newbie: Psychopsis Kalihi with soft, yellow & black leaf - Page 2 - Orchid Board

jrodpad · #11 07-31-2010, 11:36 PM

So, the potting material sounds right - I tend to treat my psychopsis like my other oncs with respect to potting material. A mix of medium and small bark, charcoal, and pearlite (sponge rock) - I do like adding both terracotta balls and cork in general, although I don't have my oncs or psychopsis in them. I think the potting mix is dead on and letting the material get just ever so dry before watering is right on for the psychopsis. I highly recommend using the skewer method that people talk about on this board. I'm a real believer.

Water just the roots - keep the leaves as dry as possible for a while. If it is in fact bacterial you want to make the environment as inhospitable for the bacterial growth as possible - dry and bright. If it's viral - it doesn't really matter. So keeping the leaves dry will either help or do nothing, but shouldn't hurt. I've never heard of Get Off Me so I can't really comment.

The light black splotches are kind of hard to make out in the picture. My psychopsis has mottled leaves, so they all kind of look like that. There are darker green spots mixed in with the solid green background of the leaves. The dark splotches aren't soft or mushy, right? They're always hard and brittle. They hate to be disturbed, whether it's reporting or just moving them around, and if you bang them around too much, the leaves will break. I'd imagine it's fairly common if you can't watter them where they live.

I don't see anything troubling with the nodes. The different colors don't look out of place to me. I am encouraged by the budding - I think if the orchid is healthy enough to bud things can't be all that bad.

I would keep the moisture on the leaves to a minimum and up the light.

Good luck!

- J

groundpounder17 · #12 08-01-2010, 01:04 AM

Thanks J,

The Feed Me is supposedly the MSU formula fertilizer while the Get Off Me is described by repotme.com as " used to control common insect pests on orchids while also protecting the plant from fungus and bacterial problems. GET OFF ME! spray is a natural water based cinnamon herbal infusion with a few drops of baby shampoo as a surfactant." It also came with a cinnamon stick in the spray bottle and you just add the Get Off Me solution to it. Following watering I have been lightly misting the top and bottom of the leaves with the Get Off Me in hopes that this would help prevent any type of bacterial or fungal problems.

The reason I have been watering outdoors is because I like to leave the chids outside in the direct sun for about an hour to fully dry. Again, here I was hoping to prevent fungal growth by allowing the leaves to fully dry. But if I should water indoors in the sink then I will adopt that method.

The thing that I noticed about the leaf that fell off was that it appeared to be new growth from a smaller pseudobulb that was much lower/deeper than the larger, older pseudobulbs. That lower, smaller pseudobulb was partially covered by the potting media which I now believe could have become moist resulting in the leaf decaying. Do I need to keep the pseudobulbs fully exposed (above the potting media)? For the most part, The pseudobulbs are plumb with only a few slight wrinkles.

My other theory for that fallen leaf is that since the leaf was in folded pattern toward the base (it was very small leaf and I assume new growth), it could have gotten some water inside it and thus caused the rot/decay.

As for the budding, the plant arrived with 2 spikes and the buds actually appear no different than it did on arrival. I looked at my tag and I can now say that I overestimated my originally stated time for repotting as the repotting date was actually 7/8/10. That was the day the plants were delivered. Now after doing some reading I wish I would have waited on the repotting but it looked so pitiful that I couldn't wait. A newbie mistake I suppose. Is it likely that the buds will survive and if so how long before they should begin to open?

I'm still a little unclear about the physan. Should I use it diluted with the water and the fertilizer and simply put it on the media roots? Or do you recommend me watering with the fertilizer followed by lightly spraying the leaves only with the physan mix in a spray bottle to prevent the bacteria/fungi?

As for potting, I used repotme.com's Oxygen Dual Core pots which are essentially a clear plastic pot with drainage holes in the bottom while having a black inner pot that mesh-like, having numerous holes throughout the entire inner pot. The post is supposed to allow better air circulation to the roots.

My watering style may be dangerous though. I buy distilled water that I use for my orchids, flytraps, and nepethes. Since it is so much more expensive than tap water I like to try to avoid wasting water. I use two large plastic bowls and place a chid in one. I then pour water over all of the media, remove the plant and place it in the second plastic bowl collecting the water then reuse the same water to go back over the plant. I do this 3-4 times re-using the same water for the same plant. Then I use a diluted fertilizer mix (MSU-Feed Me) and lightly water the chid then set it in the sun. I then lightly spray it with the Get Off Me and allow the plant to dry for approx 1 hr in the sun. I discard that plants water, clean the collecting bowls with physan then start the process with another chid but using fresh water for each chid. Should I not be re-using the same water for the initial flushing process? Any residue at the bottom is always discarded and not poured back onto the plant. So that last little bit of water collected never gets placed back into the plant.

Again, sorry for the lengthy post but I am truly a beginner and need all the help I can get. I'm a male 32 y/o former Marine with little plant growing experience but I have recently developed a love of orchids and carnivorous plants.

Thanks J, you have been a tremendous help. I truly appreciate you taking the time to reply and give me advice. There is no telling what I am doing wrong with these things. My wife, who is the gardner of the home, has told me that I have become obsessed with the new chids. Funny thing is that I got into it because of her love of gardening but now I'm the one that truly enjoys it.

jrodpad · #13 08-02-2010, 11:13 AM

Hey GP,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Crazy weekend. Anyway, with respect to watering outside or in, I don't think it really matters. You have to find what works for you in your environment. Whether you water indoors at the sink or outside and let the plants dry, I think that you probably shouldn't wet/mist the leaves until you've got this situation under control.

I know Ray advocates a Cinnamon based fungicide/bacteriacide on his home remedies page.
First Rays' Home Remedies

I would think that the alcohol based mix would be better for your needs because it would actually help to remove moisture from the leaves. If the spray that you're using is water based, while you're fighting bacterial/fungus with the cinnamon, your contributing to a moist environment at the same time. Just a thought. Not sure if it really matters if the leaves dry out in the sun... but I'd probably use the alcohol based solution just in case.

With respect to the small p-bulb - take a hard look at the growth of the plant to see which direction(s) the plant is growing. At first glance, the p-bulbs of oncs seem to grow in clumps. But if you look closer, you will see a direction (sometimes 2 or more depending on the size of the orchid) to the growth. The p-bulbs are all connected by a rhizome that's just under the surface of the potting material and you should be able to trace the growth from oldest to newest if you look and see where the eyes are forming. If the bulb that lost its leaf was an older p-bulb, no problem. This happens. If it's a newer p-bulb, it's probably a symptom of the malady. I can never get my oncs to grow in a level manner - the new growths always seem to appear slightly higher that the growths before it. As a result, when I repot, I wind up sticking the oldest p-bulb slightly under the surface of the bark mix. Sometimes the p-bulb gets mushy or looses its leaf as a result. Sometimes it's unaffected. In any event, if it looses the leaf, I'm usually not worried as there's a new p-bulb or two that prompted me to repot in the first place so there's plenty of healthy orchid left. Again, if the p-bulb you lost was an older one that got partly buried because the psychopsis needed to be reoriented to support the new growth - no big deal. If it was an emerging p-bulb that you partly buried when you reppotted, then ... oops. Just wait for the next one to surface and be sure to keep it above the potting media.

The buds look good in the pictures - but this process is SLOW! If you didn't repot upon arrival, I'd say you were looking at another 4-8 weeks before those buds would flower. It's an excruciatingly slow process where the bud breaks out of that little sheath, plumps up a bit, gets quite a bit longer, plumps up a bit more and then finally breaks out. See the sequence that I posted here:

Psychopsis in Springtime

Repotting could stall the process and make it even longer. I have no idea if repotting or the malady could cause the buds to blast. Possible, we'll have to wait and see.

I would dilute the physan and pour it in the media and roots for a few watering cycles. If you wind up spraying the leaves too, you should probably do so outside to accelerate the drying. If it were me, I'd probably add the dilute physan to the media/roots and spray with Ray's alcohol based cinnamon mix to keep the leaves dry.

Your watering routine sounds fine to me except for the reusing of the water. You're instincts are right not to reuse the water for other orchids. That's good in helping to prevent cross contamination. However, if it were me, I wouldn't pour the water through more than once for each orchid. Part of what you're doing when you flush the media with water is removing the salts and other minerals that have collected on the roots and in the media. By reusing the same water you're putting at least some portion of those minerals back into the pot. To manage costs, you might try cutting the distilled water with rainwater 50%/50%. It's free, easy to collect and arguably better for the orchids than distilled water anyway as it has some impurities (compared to distilled water) that the orchids benefit from.

I'm also 32 and relatively new to the hobby - I've been doing this for about 3 years and I'm completely obsessed myself and loving every minute of it. This board has been the single largest asset to my learning so I love to jump on and share what I've picked up along the way. Just keep in mind that for every question you ask, you'll likely get 5 different answers and the only right one is the one that works for you.

Good luck!

- J

goofy · #14 08-04-2010, 08:17 PM

Hi Groundpounder17,

I have a similar looking psychopsis (not mottled). Mine is a NOID, so I wouldn't know the exact name, but it looks a lot like yours. Anyway, it has similar black spots, though not too many and the spots are not too big. I repotted it a few months ago due to the decayed media that caused the new growth to rot and fell off. I repotted when it was in buds, but I was very careful not to break any root. The buds did not blast. It has been in continuous blooming, right now with 4 flowers. I think your buds looks ok. The different color in the two spikes seems ok to me. Mine have 5 spikes and they are all different color. I think the color changes when the spike gets older. When I water it, I never let water touch the leaves. I am using tap water, so far my chids are ok with it. Be patient, the buds can take months until they are fully open.

Good luck.

Thuy

groundpounder17 · #15 08-05-2010, 01:36 AM

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. Yesterday I watered outdoors using the physan being careful to only soak the media & roots. I then sprayed/misted with a 50:50 mix of alcohol and Get Off Me (a cinnamon based mix). I did get a small drop of water in the crown of my gigantea which I swabbed with a Q-tip. I left the plants outdoors to dry for close to an hour but didn't want to leave them out too long due to the current high temp levels here (heat index reaching 112-117 degrees F daily). I was actually worried that my media may have dried too much. Is it possible to dry too much? I do know that the blistering sun can burn the plants and I do not believe this has occured.

I am tired of spending so much on distilled water and am considering my options for either a distiller or RO setup. Any recommendations? I'm thinking that I should get Ray's complete RO kit. Any experience with this setup or others? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Between my fly traps, nepenthes, and orchids I am spending quite a bit on water at the moment and I would prefer a home setup. I do collect rain water but we are in a drought so I haven't collected more than a qt in the past month.

Thanks again everyone. I really appreciate your help.

orchidsamore · #16 08-05-2010, 08:00 AM

I grow hundreds of Psychopsis. Brittle and splitting leaves are common. So also is the manner in which the leaf died, but while a single leaf is not a problem Psychopsis do not loss many leaves.

The black spots are insect damage not fungus rot. It is not active but old damage. Other than how it looks you can ignore it. I am surprised seeing a plant in that condition being sold, but it is a healthy plant, if not pretty leaves.

A double spike plant is nice, because they only get one flower per spike. They flower continuously so never cut the spike.

The flowers will be larger if you give them high sunlight. In your home give them as much light as you can. I have flowered them as a test in low light but the flowers were half normal size. I grow them up to Vanda light 5000 foot candles although they do not need this much.

Re-potting Psychopsis should not be done too frequently as they take a long time to re-establish in the pot. During this time the roots will not hold it and the plant can be damaged from movement bruising the roots. A pot clip and placing where it will not be disturbed will help.

groundpounder17 · #17 08-07-2010, 02:58 AM

Well everyone, I just pulled the trigger and placed an order with Firstrays. I purchased a T5 48" single bulb setup with additional bulb and his 100 gpd complete RO system upgraded to a 5 stage system.

What do you guys think? Is this a pretty good start? My wife and I are about to start our house and I hope to one day build a greenhouse but for now I'll have to settle for a home setup.

groundpounder17 · #18 08-20-2010, 12:30 AM

Update
I recieved and installed the RO system in my kitchen and it was easy. My psychopsis is doing great. The two buds are large, green, and extremely healthy. I'm about to try to record the events as they unfold so I will try to post pics when it finally happens! I'm excited. I find myself checking on it all the time.

My gigantea on the other hand is not doing well at all. I repotted into s/h yesterday and had over 75% root rot. I'm pretty worried about this one.