I am starting to give up on orchids

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Would you also like to know about plants I think you would do well with outdoors in a place that snows such as Delaware?

[aries23]

yes pls!

[Poppyseed]

awe, don't give up! just keep hangin in there and listen to these guys at OB, they know what they're talkin about!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Have you ever tried growing Bletilla striata or Bletilla ochracea? These are from cooler parts of China where it can snow.

Cypripediums will do well too. Don't need too much experience growing orchids to start with one. They're mostly from cooler places in North America, some parts of Europe, and cooler parts of China. Research and ask about the species you intend to buy first before you purchase them! Each species can have their own special soil requirements (for example: some like Cyp. acaule like peat based soils, others like Cyp. macranthos like limestone based soils).

Dactylorhiza are rare in the US orchid trade and are difficult to get a hold of, but I know where to find them. These guys are mostly from Northern Europe originally.

Just know that they need some protection from heavy frost. But many of these are frost hardy.

These are terrestrial orchids, btw. Might be more familiar for you to grow than the epiphytical types.

There are more frost hardy orchids, but I think more experience is necessary before you try those on.

[Ashleigh's Orchids]

Ive been reading this thread to learn a little more bout orchids but a couple of people have commented on how much of a nightmare phals are for beginners. i have 4 phals now after rescueing 2 from my mum a few days ago (which by the way i have a thread on !) I was just wondering why you guys are saying they are a nightmare? In all fairness i havnt had my phals for years yet and they havnt reflowered since cutting down the stalks but there is still time but now im curious as to why they are a nightmare and if in fact my phals will reflower now and if ive been doing the right thing all this time if they are harder work to look after then i thought they were!!

[CTB]

where are you growing these? How much light? How much water? Help us, help you

[orkie]

I would not jump to conclusions based on what other people say are easy or hard orchids to grow.

It all depends on how you water, your light (is it from the east, west, south , north), and how much effort you want to put into the plants.

In my experience and conditions and withthe level of effort I put in, I am able to grow quite an assortment of plants in my house. I find Cattleyas, Vandas and vandaceous hybrids, Phals, and Dendrobiums are all quite do-able. I also have a mish-mash of other plants as well, including the aforementioned Sedirea and Zygopetalum (in my house, both live but don't exactly thrive-but since they aren't my favorite plants, I also don't cater to them).

On the other hand, Vanda in your house are a huge pain, but I love them, so I go through a lot of trouble with watering them and they thrive (I keep them on my fire escape in summer and indoors in winter).

In general, I have found what matters the least for the group of plants I grow is humidity (mine ranges from 30's to 70's depending on time of year).

The most important 2 things for me are light levels and how I water. Are you using distilled water for a reason? Is you water super awful? Most tap water is fine for most orchids (some, like Masdevallia's are more picky about that though).

I grow all of my plants in western sun, all of them, even Phals, get some direct sun. Most orchids can take a lot of sun if they are acclimated to it.

To get a better idea about light levels put a peice of white paper down on the spot you grow your plants and hold your hand about a foot up. If you get no shadow, that is very low light, a fuzzy shadow is medium, and a sharp shadow would be high. it's a pretty general way to help figure your light levels.

Most plants will acclimate to higher light than is suggested, but you won't get flowers with lower than is suggested.

Anyway, it's tough to reccomend a plant to someone else, but you may want to consider Paphiopedilum (good for lowish-medium light).

If you could post some pics of the orchids you have that might also help people figure out what to do to help yours. I grow all my Dens in direct light outside in summer and they do great.

Good luck!

[aries23]

" I am very excited!!! for the first time in one year I have seen root nubs on my Dens I have sort of mounted outside hanging upside down. In fact to be exact this is what I did. T-Rex Crab Island Climbing Background and rolled it up but left the inside big enough to put the dens in. At the time when i did this all roots were just white not any green ones after having the plant indoors. I placed spanish moss on the roots. I hung it upside down for two weeks. I was afraid to water it but i did about two or three times in that time frame. It got alot of sun (direct sun) in the evening and in the morning. And to my surprise I look today and bam new green root nubs , the cutest little things I have ever seen , and one of them had a keikel I think too. I am so happy my hard work and commiment and ...some most of them dying on me.. Finally I get a huge reward..... yaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy. But with this being said this means my dens do need direct sunlight, but i dont know what I will do come the winter time because I will have to bring them inside , where they will probably die..The dens are phal type ones.

Now on another subject, I have my phal that was just doing fine, hasnt died but hasnt grown new roots, the roots are still green. only part that is brownish or black is a little tip on some of the roots thats it.
well i go to give its weekly or more then a week soaking with fertilizer and maybe not sure I think i might have left it for too long. So yesterday I put it by the patio door inside so it can reciev more light. When i look at it today it has fuzzy mold on two roots . Not alot but I was so depressed So now that one is outside where it can recieve nore light as well!

I have not mentioned I have a phal that is in isolation because it has those bugs that make the whitish substance and they are white as well. I dont know how i can possibly get rid of them I thought I did when I first saw it but now dont know what to do! there is alot of them!! on that one it has 6 leaves. It was spanish moss as well but the moss is so dry that the roots are dead. two areial roots but not sure if those are dead too!!

Please help me with some of my questions. Also can I use coconut bark from the pet store on the phals instead of sprmoss? Or anything else from the pet store??

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by orkie

It all depends on how you water, your light (is it from the east, west, south , north), and how much effort you want to put into the plants.

This is true...

But the last part about putting in the effort goes without saying. I'm assuming you [aries23], would be willing to put in the effort into a plant you picked, you bought, that you liked, and that you would want to see do well with. At this junction, it's what you want to do with the plant, it has no bearing on how easy or difficult the plant is to grow for most growers.

If you're not excited about a plant, I would assume that you wouldn't even bother purchasing it to begin with. I mean, no one's forcing you to buy a plant that you don't like or care about. You know what I mean?

Originally Posted by orkie

...I find Cattleyas, Vandas and vandaceous hybrids, Phals, and Dendrobiums are all quite do-able. I also have a mish-mash of other plants as well, including the aforementioned Sedirea and Zygopetalum (in my house, both live but don't exactly thrive-but since they aren't my favorite plants, I also don't cater to them).

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying here. I never said Phals are "not doable". They are. They just aren't a cake walk to deal with. In this case, the numbers don't lie, many beginners end up killing many, many Phals (hybrids and species), before they learn to succeed (there are the occasional outliers of people succeeding upon the first few tries, but this is not the norm).

And in this scenario "orkie", has not demonstrated that my suggestions of Sedirea japonica and Zygopetalum mackayi as being difficult plants to grow. In fact, she has demonstrated exactly what I was saying! How would plants that are difficult to grow able to withstand the amount of neglect that "orkie" has admitted to? They would have to be pretty sturdy plants to tolerate such abuses and neglect and still be alive! Just try doing that with something like Stenia vasquezii and let's see if the story doesn't sing to a different tune. Follow me?

Originally Posted by orkie

In general, I have found what matters the least for the group of plants I grow is humidity (mine ranges from 30's to 70's depending on time of year).

While "orkie" is free to voice her opinions on the humidity portion of growing, I would have to disagree on this statement. I think there's an element of her growing technique, which allows her to "ignore" such factors, in which she may not be 100% aware of.

BTW, humidity is not as constant as most people think it is...

Originally Posted by orkie

The most important 2 things for me are light levels and how I water. Are you using distilled water for a reason? Is you water super awful? Most tap water is fine for most orchids (some, like Masdevallia's are more picky about that though).

I think "orkie" does ask good questions regarding tap water. I did address this issue. However, I'm on the boat my tap water may be the source of some recent "unexplained" deaths in my collection. I have noticed differences (albeit very subtle, and can easily go undetected by someone who isn't observant of it - disclaimer: not claiming that anyone is non-observant of their plants, but things do slip through, even for the most advanced growers), between using tap and using the RO/DI system water.

By all means, if you feel that your tap water is contributing to your failures, you could:

1. Look into it and do the research about your local water source.

2. Just try out not using tap and see if you notice any kind of differences.

Originally Posted by orkie

I grow all of my plants in western sun, all of them, even Phals, get some direct sun. Most orchids can take a lot of sun if they are acclimated to it.

Be careful with this...

I live in Los Angeles County which is much closer to the equator where the sunlight is definitely much stronger than say someone who is living in Vermont. Catch my drift? I would never get away with exposing my Phals to direct any kind of light (I've tried growing Phals in an area of my porch where I now grow Vandas and Catts, all epic failures - the result was sunburn).

Living in an area of higher or lower elevations do factor in as well.

Although, with this, it shouldn't be overly difficult to figure out.

Originally Posted by orkie

To get a better idea about light levels put a peice of white paper down on the spot you grow your plants and hold your hand about a foot up. If you get no shadow, that is very low light, a fuzzy shadow is medium, and a sharp shadow would be high. it's a pretty general way to help figure your light levels.

Interesting technique, try it out.

Originally Posted by orkie

Most plants will acclimate to higher light than is suggested, but you won't get flowers with lower than is suggested.

True in most cases, there are caveats...

Originally Posted by orkie

Anyway, it's tough to reccomend a plant to someone else, but you may want to consider Paphiopedilum (good for lowish-medium light).

My school of thought with Paphs is that they are more for people with a bit under their belt already. The problem I find with Paphs is that they're:

1. Slow growing. Hence people will fall into the same kind of impatience with them as they do with Phals.

2. Have much fewer roots per plant. This is particularly tricky to handle if the tendency is to over water a plant. Once the roots rot out, it's game over, they have a very difficult time rebounding from that.

3. Some Paphs grow along the faces of limestone cliffs. Unless you're ready to go the extra mile to supply the Ca and Mg, or add some limestone in the mix, you're hard pressed to grow something like Paph micranthum in the long run. Some Paphs grow just fine in a bark style mix, but which ones are they? Follow...?

4. They can be just as tricky to flower as Phals. Again, the impatience trap for many beginners.

Originally Posted by orkie

If you could post some pics of the orchids you have that might also help people figure out what to do to help yours.

Yes, I agree. Photos do a great service to people who are willing to help you out.

If you want to deal with your Phals and Dens first. Please make it clear, so that everybody is on the same page.

I hope this was helpful to your efforts.

[Triffid]

Regards Humidty.

King is absolutely correct in pointing out that it is not a constant.
It can be dependent on many factors such as time of day, temperature, wind, ventilation and so on.

When thinking about humidity they key factor (a lot of the time) is to remember it is a guide. It does not always have to be an absolute constant. As long as your not growing a desert flower in amazon conditions and visa versa there is leeway.
This morning 80% this evening 50%. Yesterday fluctuated more.

Only in the most extreme environments do you get constant highs or constant lows, but even they may fluctuate to a degree.

Just my on Humidity (Why don't I watch soaps instead )

Don't give up on Orchids just yet, there are hundreds of thousands available and they appears in nearly every country. And Hybrids (from good breeders at lease) can be breed to cope better in conditions away from their natural environment.