Is That an Orchid in Your Carry-On or Are You Just Happy to Enter the US?

[jrodpad]

Quick question for the group.

I'm going to be heading down to Brazil in the next few weeks and I've already picked out a few orchid-related detours from our otherwise non-orchid travels. A few of the detours are vendors.

Is there any way to bring or send an orchid or two (or ten) back to the US? I'm assuming that I can't just put them in my luggage as there's a general restriction on bringing foreign plants/fruits/veggies back from a foreign country... but can they be shipped back? I've never had 'chids shipped into the country before. What's the procedure like? Is it wildly expensive? Is this something that I'd have to worry about or will the vendor generally take care of import/export issues?

It's going to be sweet, sweet torture if I can't get anything back home.

Thanks!

- J

[camille1585]

You can bring flasks back with no problem at at, usually you just need a phytosanitary certificate and you can take it in your carry on luggage.

As for bringing back plants you can't ship or bring them back with you without the appropriate paperwork, which can be costly. You will need a CITES certificate, and it's only good for one genus. Bring back several genera of orchids, and you will need one certificate per genus. Even then, certain orchids are still illegal, notably everything which is on appendice I of the CITES convention. That's all paphs and phrags, as well as a few others.
You will usually need a phytosanitary certificate for the orchids as well, and it's likely that the US will require an either an export permit from Brazil or an import permit.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Or you can get seed. You don't need diddly squat but the seeds themselves.

[lambelkip]

Originally Posted by camille1585

You can bring flasks back with no problem at at, usually you just need a phytosanitary certificate and you can take it in your carry on luggage.

As for bringing back plants you can't ship or bring them back with you without the appropriate paperwork, which can be costly. You will need a CITES certificate, and it's only good for one genus. Bring back several genera of orchids, and you will need one certificate per genus. Even then, certain orchids are still illegal, notably everything which is on appendice I of the CITES convention. That's all paphs and phrags, as well as a few others.
You will usually need a phytosanitary certificate for the orchids as well, and it's likely that the US will require an either an export permit from Brazil or an import permit.

The CITES certificate needs to list each species, not just the genus. Certificates can list multiple species, so you only need one. Phytosanitary certificates are required in all cases. The import permit is usually not required, if you're bringing a small number of plants back in your luggage. It is required for all shipments. Many major vendors do shows in the U.S., so they may be able to import them for you, and ship them from inside the country.

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Or you can get seed. You don't need diddly squat but the seeds themselves.

Phytosanitary certificates are required for all seed. This requirement is not specific to orchids.
For seed of Appendix I species, a CITES certificate and import permit is required.

flasks of any orchid species or hybrid can be brought in with just a Phytosanitary certificate.

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by lambelkip

The CITES certificate needs to list each species, not just the genus. Certificates can list multiple species, so you only need one. Phytosanitary certificates are required in all cases. The import permit is usually not required, if you're bringing a small number of plants back in your luggage. It is required for all shipments. Many major vendors do shows in the U.S., so they may be able to import them for you, and ship them from inside the country.

Yes, but it's still one certificate per genus. You just have to list all the hybrids and/or species of the genus on that one certificate. That's the way I understood it when I was looking up everything to eventually bring some orchids back to europe.

[Eyebabe]

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Eyebabe

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

Customs may not know what species of orchids they are, but they sure as hell know they're orchids. Just go ahead and try it, you'll see what I mean.

Only a handful of orchids are actually invasive. Most are not able to become so. Even most of the temperate, subalpine, and alpine species of orchids have a difficult time becoming invasive out of their native range.

But at the same time, consider this...

Spathoglottis plicata is an orchid, and it is truly a pan-tropic weed. It's origins were from Asia, but has become naturalized in many different parts of the tropical world. But yet, it's still being sold...

Where's that logic?

To me that makes no damn sense.

These agencies so far know which plants are invasive, otherwise why the hell would so many websites post which plants are and which plants aren't in whatever parts of the country?

Protection my butt! They couldn't protect jack diddly in my opinion. That's what nature reserves are for.

You wanna know another non-native orchid that has spread throughout the tropics and is still being propagated (by botanical gardens, not just private breeders) and sold?

Oeceoclades maculata. I have no way of explaining this crap in conjunction with the idea of protecting the environment.

This one was originally native to places like Africa and Madagascar.

I have a hard time believing this is about environmental protection.

There are so many laws that are restrictive. Do you know how many stories I've heard of ordinary people saving the orchids growing in their property in places like Europe and South Africa? All this without the "help" of government laws, restrictions, or regulations/permits.

These same laws actually prohibited these people from saving the orchids they loved from being destroyed by development. It's these people who were brave and enough and smart enough to say screw the law, I want these saved, and I'm gonna freakin' do it law or no law.

One more thing...

These prohibitive laws that are supposed to help protect the plants they were intended to protect, actually have scared the living schiznitz out of people for fear of being caught and having to pay exorbitant fines for truly wanting to protect their plants. Where are the laws protecting and encouraging this kind of action?

Loggers in the US, have saved a few species of native orchids, all without the "help" of the US government and the laws regulating such things.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by Eyebabe

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

This is exactly what I've been wanting to say. Well put.
Sorry guys, but I'd rather it be regulated.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Damn!!!!

WTF!!!!

US customs and the USDA or whatever government agency can go suck a load of sludge!

Now seeds need import permits too!!!???

I just found this out from an overseas supplier of seeds! What a load of crap!

What the hell is the US's reasoning for this?! It's gotta be a money/power issue. There's no other logical reasoning for this. I heard it from a professor working at a botanical garden how government powers are making plant trade very difficult. It's governmental and bureaucratic greed! Screw this!

Non-orchid groups are affected by this too! Holy s**t I wanna puke!

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Damn!!!!

WTF!!!!

US customs and the USDA or whatever government agency can go suck a load of sludge!

Now seeds need import permits too!!!

I just found this out from an overseas supplier of seeds! What a load of crap!

What the hell is the US's reasoning for this?! It's gotta be a money/power issue. There's no other logical reasoning for this. I heard it from a professor working at a botanical garden how government powers are making plant trade very difficult. It's governmental and bureaucratic greed! Screw this!

Non-orchid groups are affected by this too! Holy s**t I wanna puke!

I don't know about seeds leaving the US, but I got seed from the OSP with no problems.

But your right about the this being govt/beautcratic greed. From what I understand, in the plant breeding world this is starting to be a problem. Countries have decided that whatever plants grow in their country 'belong' to them, and don't like researchers and plants breeders taking seed and plants out of the country to use for commercial purposes (breeding mainly) because they don't get paid for the use of 'their' national germplasm. A bunch of red tape has been put in place in many countries, and it's affecting everyone. I don't know if that's the reason for seeds needing import permits, but it's one possible explanation.