Is That an Orchid in Your Carry-On or Are You Just Happy to Enter the US?

[Eyebabe]

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

[jrodpad]

BTW King -

Totally not surprised on the bureaucratic greed issue. Disappointed - but not surprised.

- J

[trdyl]

D, Well put. Also something else to think about is how many species have already been lost in the wild due to over collection.

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by jrodpad

Ordinarily, who produces the phytosanitary certificate? The vendor? Brazilian customs? Is it expensive?

Also, aside from careful packing, is there anything I should do to ensure that the flasked orchids survive the trip in my carry-on?

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if all countries require phyto for flasks. I don't know where you'd have to check to know what the US requires.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Eyebabe

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

Customs may not know what species of orchids they are, but they sure as hell know they're orchids. Just go ahead and try it, you'll see what I mean.

Only a handful of orchids are actually invasive. Most are not able to become so. Even most of the temperate, subalpine, and alpine species of orchids have a difficult time becoming invasive out of their native range.

But at the same time, consider this...

Spathoglottis plicata is an orchid, and it is truly a pan-tropic weed. It's origins were from Asia, but has become naturalized in many different parts of the tropical world. But yet, it's still being sold...

Where's that logic?

To me that makes no damn sense.

These agencies so far know which plants are invasive, otherwise why the hell would so many websites post which plants are and which plants aren't in whatever parts of the country?

Protection my butt! They couldn't protect jack diddly in my opinion. That's what nature reserves are for.

You wanna know another non-native orchid that has spread throughout the tropics and is still being propagated (by botanical gardens, not just private breeders) and sold?

Oeceoclades maculata. I have no way of explaining this crap in conjunction with the idea of protecting the environment.

This one was originally native to places like Africa and Madagascar.

I have a hard time believing this is about environmental protection.

There are so many laws that are restrictive. Do you know how many stories I've heard of ordinary people saving the orchids growing in their property in places like Europe and South Africa? All this without the "help" of government laws, restrictions, or regulations/permits.

These same laws actually prohibited these people from saving the orchids they loved from being destroyed by development. It's these people who were brave and enough and smart enough to say screw the law, I want these saved, and I'm gonna freakin' do it law or no law.

One more thing...

These prohibitive laws that are supposed to help protect the plants they were intended to protect, actually have scared the living schiznitz out of people for fear of being caught and having to pay exorbitant fines for truly wanting to protect their plants. Where are the laws protecting and encouraging this kind of action?

Loggers in the US, have saved a few species of native orchids, all without the "help" of the US government and the laws regulating such things.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by Eyebabe

I am going to be the devil's advocate here
Now let's suppose there were no paperwork required to import plants from other countries; and at one time this was of course the case.
How many different types of plants, with different growing habits might come into any country and escape the greenhouses? Certainly, some foliage would be purposefully planted in yards, parks, etc. As in the past, a good idea of planting a foreign specimen to control some type of issue will go bad. A perfectly pleasant plant in its typical location can become invasive and destructive when planted elsewhere.
There are current environment issues we are still dealing with from the times when we were "free" to take plants and animals anywhere in the globe our heart desired
This law protects us and our environment.
Now I know you are thinking..."my god, we are talking orchids here!"
Do you feel the customs agents are educated enough to judge the difference between an orchid, a rose bush, or a weed on the spot as you walk through the line in the airport?? Let alone that they might know a perfectly normal plant for their country becomes invasive in countries X, Y, and Z but not in countries P, D, and Q
I certainly am offended by the cost of such a process, but on the otherhand, it must be a quite cumbersome senario requiring a good bit of man hours etc. to assure a plant is "safely" imported.
I can understand why we have CITES. It's a shame it can't be easier.

This is exactly what I've been wanting to say. Well put.
Sorry guys, but I'd rather it be regulated.

[Eyebabe]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Customs may not know what species of orchids they are, but they sure as hell know they're orchids. Just go ahead and try it, you'll see what I mean.

Only a handful of orchids are actually invasive. Most are not able to become so. Even most of the temperate, subalpine, and alpine species of orchids have a difficult time becoming invasive out of their native range.

But at the same time, consider this...

Spathoglottis plicata is an orchid, and it is truly a pan-tropic weed. It's origins were from Asia, but has become naturalized in many different parts of the tropical world. But yet, it's still being sold...

Where's that logic?

To me that makes no damn sense.

These agencies so far know which plants are invasive, otherwise why the hell would so many websites post which plants are and which plants aren't in whatever parts of the country?

Protection my butt! They couldn't protect jack diddly in my opinion. That's what nature reserves are for.

You wanna know another non-native orchid that has spread throughout the tropics and is still being propagated (by botanical gardens, not just private breeders) and sold?

Oeceoclades maculata. I have no way of explaining this crap in conjunction with the idea of protecting the environment.

This one was originally native to places like Africa and Madagascar.

I have a hard time believing this is about environmental protection.

There are so many laws that are restrictive. Do you know how many stories I've heard of ordinary people saving the orchids growing in their property in places like Europe and South Africa? All this without the "help" of government laws, restrictions, or regulations/permits.

These same laws actually prohibited these people from saving the orchids they loved from being destroyed by development. It's these people who were brave and enough and smart enough to say screw the law, I want these saved, and I'm gonna freakin' do it law or no law.

One more thing...

These prohibitive laws that are supposed to help protect the plants they were intended to protect, actually have scared the living schiznitz out of people for fear of being caught and having to pay exorbitant fines for truly wanting to protect their plants. Where are the laws protecting and encouraging this kind of action?

Loggers in the US, have saved a few species of native orchids, all without the "help" of the US government and the laws regulating such things.

Don't mistake that I am not aware of the corruption rampant in every nook and crany of our government.
Fannie and Freddie is where I would start and eventually, in a month or more, I might get to orchid and plant imports/exports

Intent is the beginning of alot of good things.
Time and people either make or break the outcomes /sigh

[lambelkip]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

... Now seeds need import permits too!!!???

I just found this out from an overseas supplier of seeds! ...

importing seed requires a phytosanitary certificate *or* permit for small lots of seed. Many foreign vendors do not want to bother with the phytosanitary certificates, so they will tell you that you need an import permit. the permit for small lots of seed is pretty much useless for orchids - it allows up to 12 types of seed, and up to 50 seeds of each type (a ridiculously small amount for orchids). there is no charge for a permit for small lots of seed.

Originally Posted by camille1585

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if all countries require phyto for flasks. I don't know where you'd have to check to know what the US requires.

The US requires a Phytosanitary certificate for plants, flasks and seeds. (with the exception of small lots of seed - see above)

[peeweelovesbooks]

I have no problem whatsoever with CITES and US government regulations regarding the importation of plants.

I can loosely agree with the notion that orchids by their nature cannot become invasive, however, I still feel that orchids should be protected in their native habitat. I think the rather seemingly idiotic requirements imposed by the US actually promote conservation, in that they deter people from decimating native foreign populations, since they know they will have a hard time getting the plants inside the country.

Yes, does it irk me? absolutely it does. Do I want to bring in some wild Nicaraguan orchids on my next trip? Of course I do. However, just the thought of going through the paperwork required keeps me from taking wild orchids from their habitat and keeps the orchids safe. As it is, I think there's really no way of verifying where the orchids came from--i.e. wild or bred, so I think in fact importation laws are somewhat lax.

I know if I really wanted to I would fill out the damned paperwork and do it, but it's just an added extra step that may discourge some people.