Any Decent Organic Orchid Fertilizer?

[got ants]

Triffid, you bring up an interesting point that I have posed to me on a regular basis. I'm in the pest control business and I'm often asked about organic pest control. And basically my response is, once a product is refined to the point where it kills something, it is now inorganic.

A common misnomer is refined pyrethrins from the crysanthemum plant as being organic. It's patently false. So is those pest control companies that advertise as being organic.

My company name is ABENEX, an abbreviation from my previous company name.. ABsolute ENvironmental EXterminating. AB_EN_EX. In my yellow page ad, below the company name it states Environmental Pest Solutions. Nowhere do I state organic. When I explain to potential customers that we use pesticides that take the environments (yours and the outside)a nd apply them in a professional manner, along with the fallacy of the term organic pesticides, most get it.

Going back to organic ferts for orchids, it is possible.. worn casting teas, coconut water, and other minor essential mineral elements can be procured. But is it worth it with all the extra effort?

Then think about organic pesticides and fungicides...too much if you ask me.

[Triffid]

got ants, If only you had a dollar for each time you were asked the same question!
The only truly organic pest control I can think of is to encourage things higher up the food chain

And I hate how this term "Organic" seems to put the price up! By ludicrous amounts sometimes..... The packaging is usually not Organic for one thing!

Interesting topic though.

As for Fertilizers these days, I am doubtful that there are many on the market which are truly harmful to the environment or the food chains. After all they are designed to make plants grow and with science how it is now there is usually so much care taken to make sure the product is safe for you and the world around you. (so many rules and regulations see )

Do I use Organics then?.... I have a compost heap and was using Manure as well as Fish Blood and Guts as a child before things got all weird! It was all cheap or free then, still is now.

Do I use Non-Organic Fertilizers?... Hell Yeah! Especially inside the house, I don't want my home smelling like a stable, bog or fishmongers! And they are an effective "Pick me Up" for the outside plants when the compost etc. is running low.

....I'll shut up now, because I could go on for days

[orchidsamore]

I grow my orchids as organically as possible.

Then this requires a definition of organic as it varies for everyone.

Cow manure is not 'organic' by the organic vegetable growers associations. So want is your definition of organic.

I use worm liquid from OurVitalEarth in Florida. They add trace elements to the feed for the worms in the form of ground organic rock from several areas. The lab results should a minimum of 76 trace elements in each batch.

This is not worm castings in water which does not work well on orchids (castings works well for terrestrial orchids but washes out of the pots in normal bark mix). Castings are organic since they come from worms, as opposed to cow manure which is not organic. Castings do not have the microbal concentration of the Veermi-liquid.

The worm liquid (correctly called Vermi0Liquid) has a chemical naturally produced by the worms called ceitanese. The only thing it does is dissolve ceitain. Harmless to use but a natural pesticide as the skeleton of an insect is ceitain. It is a contact killer not systemic.

I use with the Vermi-liquid two seaweed products called Essentials and Companion.

Companion is Bracillus bacteria, which is a natural anti-fungal innoculent. Use of the product for almost a year and a half has reduced my fungal infections from Pythion (black rot) by 85%. Another nursery found the same results on fusarium fungus.

Essentials is also made from seaweed and has many good elements but the primary one is gibberelic acid with is a powerful rooting hormone.


All three products are in liquid form and mix together well for a single application.

Using just seaweed extract will not get the same results as the products are grown in vats under heat to increase the concentrations to levels not available in seaweed direct. Companion comes with the guarantee of 60 million bacteria per pound.

I used nothing but these for a year and the plants thrived. I grow in higher light than most hobbyist and the combination of these and the high light resulted in light green leaves. The plants produce less chlorophyll in the leaves when they have enough food to grow.

So I have to supplement my orchids with additional nitrogen as customers think the light leaves are not healthy looking plants. The light leaf plants flowered excellently.

In a hobbyist collection using Vemi-liquid as a total pest control is possible, it requires application every 3 days when an infestation is active (this is the rate at which new insect eggs hatch). This is difficult in a large nursery.

So I am forced to supplement with systemic pesticides but I limit these to twice a year during active thrip season.

I have no need to be totally organic but like to be as close to natural as possible.

[Triffid]

In answer to the Question What Definition do I use I believe this link is close enough.
organic - definition of organic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Never used Cow Manure, only Horse. Cows Digestion is complex and as I was led to understand it, what comes out the other end is not that nutritious any more. What ever the truth, never personally used it.

I understand completely the want, need and desire to be "Eco Friendly" and live in harmony with one's environment.
The Problem is when you get one group saying one thing, the other disagreeing and your average Joe stuck in the middle trying to understand.
It's the "Big Picture" argument really. There's a lot to cover.

And thank you for the info provided.

Anyway I'll go away again now and try not to pop back to this for a while.

[Tropicgirl]

Originally Posted by orchidsamore

I grow my orchids as organically as possible.

Then this requires a definition of organic as it varies for everyone.

Cow manure is not 'organic' by the organic vegetable growers associations. So want is your definition of organic.

I use worm liquid from OurVitalEarth in Florida. They add trace elements to the feed for the worms in the form of ground organic rock from several areas. The lab results should a minimum of 76 trace elements in each batch.

This is not worm castings in water which does not work well on orchids (castings works well for terrestrial orchids but washes out of the pots in normal bark mix). Castings are organic since they come from worms, as opposed to cow manure which is not organic. Castings do not have the microbal concentration of the Veermi-liquid.

The worm liquid (correctly called Vermi0Liquid) has a chemical naturally produced by the worms called ceitanese. The only thing it does is dissolve ceitain. Harmless to use but a natural pesticide as the skeleton of an insect is ceitain. It is a contact killer not systemic.

I use with the Vermi-liquid two seaweed products called Essentials and Companion.

Companion is Bracillus bacteria, which is a natural anti-fungal innoculent. Use of the product for almost a year and a half has reduced my fungal infections from Pythion (black rot) by 85%. Another nursery found the same results on fusarium fungus.

Essentials is also made from seaweed and has many good elements but the primary one is gibberelic acid with is a powerful rooting hormone.


All three products are in liquid form and mix together well for a single application.

Using just seaweed extract will not get the same results as the products are grown in vats under heat to increase the concentrations to levels not available in seaweed direct. Companion comes with the guarantee of 60 million bacteria per pound.

I used nothing but these for a year and the plants thrived. I grow in higher light than most hobbyist and the combination of these and the high light resulted in light green leaves. The plants produce less chlorophyll in the leaves when they have enough food to grow.

So I have to supplement my orchids with additional nitrogen as customers think the light leaves are not healthy looking plants. The light leaf plants flowered excellently.

In a hobbyist collection using Vemi-liquid as a total pest control is possible, it requires application every 3 days when an infestation is active (this is the rate at which new insect eggs hatch). This is difficult in a large nursery.

So I am forced to supplement with systemic pesticides but I limit these to twice a year during active thrip season.

I have no need to be totally organic but like to be as close to natural as possible.

Hi, Jerry!
I was wondering if you sell these products at your nursery. I will be attending your open house in May (just emailed you on Monday-hehehe) and would love to give them a try. I also try to be as eco-friendly as possible, I think it's great that you do, too!

[onlyartificiallight]

Originally Posted by Ray

As was pointed out earlier, there is no organic material that will give you sufficient and complete nutrition.

I must ask though, what is the driving force for the use of organics? The ions that are in solution for the plants to be able to absorb them are identical, whether of organic or inorganic source.

Well I have only used Better-Gro and it just smells all chemically and nasty like synthetic poison. It has nothing to do really with my orchids health. The synthesis of chemicals creates pollution, air and water. Worm farming and the gathering of guanos would seem to go a little easier.

Originally Posted by Triffid

As for Fertilizers these days, I am doubtful that there are many on the market which are truly harmful to the environment or the food chains. After all they are designed to make plants grow and with science how it is now there is usually so much care taken to make sure the product is safe for you and the world around you. (so many rules and regulations see )

You must have more faith in government insectors and chemical corporations than I

@orchidsamore, great info on vermiliquid. I use a terracycle worm product on my lawn. i would like to combine the vermiliquid with some of the desert and seabird guanos mentioned by secret. thanks for the info ppl!

[onlyartificiallight]

Just curious, how is it pyrethrins are not organic? Same with cow manure?

[Ray]

Originally Posted by onlyartificiallight

The synthesis of chemicals creates pollution, air and water.

I hate to tell you this, but the production of certified organic stuff often does, too! (Although I do agree with you that we should try to keep such stuff to a minimum.)

If this is one of your critera, those of us on the east coast should only drink European wines, as a single truckload coming from California generates far more pollution than does the same volume's share of a ship moving across the ocean.

Then there's OMRI - The Organic Materials Review Institute - who appears to be the "holy grail" of determining such designations. Does anyone know their specific criteria for certification? I sell SucraShield, a sucrose octanoate ester compound (definitely the result of a chemical manufacturing process) that is a very effective insecticide and miticide, yet it is OMRI certified.

[stefpix]

And what about organic pollution from cow manure / gas? i thnk organic is always a fad with price markup and profit margin for yuppies.

You may not get pesticides but you may get E coli... anyway. natural ways whenever possible but there is a lot of confusion. Plenty of organic toxic substances

[orchidsamore]

Triffid

Your definition of organic is a general one but for food to be organic it needs a lot more than just coming from animals or plant material.

Cow manure is not organic since the cows are feed growth steroids and antibiotics. Those compounds go into the animal and into their manure. Worms however retain all these bad compounds and their manure is organic. You can feed non-organic cow manure to worms and the result is organic by every definition.

Worms can even filter mercury out of their food and retain it in their bodies.

My definition of organic is to avoid poisons.

Angela I am looking forward to meeting you at the open house.

Organic growing to me is to remove the poisons we spray in tremendous quantities.

When growing vegetables the lack of poisons reduces the crop and thereby increases the cost. I am willing to pay it not to have the poisons going into my body.

When I treat my orchids the wind will often shift and blow back into my face. Now I have no fear of exposure.

If you have ever read the OSHA safety sheets on the chemicals you hear recommended on the Internet for orchids, you will know you should use disposable garments, cover from head to foot long sleeves and an air respirator. They are dangerous.

Even the fertilizers we have used since the 1930s of nitrogen phosphorus and potassium are not good for the environment.

The Florida everglades are being destroyed by fertilizer runoff. The Florida legislature banned the use of Nitrogen and Phosphorus during the rainy season (orchid growing season) and require slow release all year long.

The removal of phosphorus could help the everglades but typical of our governments and the ability to bride them, the two biggest polluters, sugar cane and golf courses were exempted.

Organic though is not the equivalent of Eco friendly. They have many over lapping good features but they are not equivalent.