Phal drying out - Orchid Board

phirephly · #1 04-12-2010, 02:56 PM

A few months ago, I split up a momma phal from her two keikis and planted them all in a bark mix. I don't believe the bark mix is very good quality, but it's what I had at the time. The mom was originally in sphag, peanuts, and I think that's about it. I remember lots of sphag.

All 3 have showed mild signs of drying out, so I've been watering them much more. Of the two babies, one has bloomed while in bark mix. The other baby shows no signs of bloomage and a little bit more signs of dryage.

The mother has shown the most drying signs though. I'm assuming because she's accustomed to the soppy sphag environment more than her babies?

So, because she was showing so much stress in wrinkly slightly yellowing leaves, I potted her up in SH prime agra about a month ago. That hasn't really helped her overall condition, but I don't think she's any worse. I've noticed that she's sending out a spike (I think), so that's a good sign? But, her leaves are still dry, still wrinkly, and yellowing more.

A few minutes ago, I dumped her out of the pot, rinsed her roots, and stuck them all in a coffee cup where they're soaking. Her roots are all firm, but they're brown, black, white, green, everything. They're firm though.

- Should I trim any firm roots?
- Should I put her back in PA or the old crappy bark? Do you think this plant might be happier in better bark or CHC longer term? I think I will put her back in PA today, but I'm considering ordering some CHC, sphag, and a little charcoal?

Re: Bark - I think it's crappy quality because it's odd, doesn't seem to retain water, and all 3 plants started exhibiting bad signs since they were put in it. As further evidence, I purchased an oncidium the other day (my first onc.) and the bark it's in is completely different. It was completely dried out, but it responded VERY well to water. It's pbulb was dark and shriveled, but plumped up to 2-3x its original size when I watered it. That onc bark absorbs water, too. I like that bark. But, overall I like the PA too, just not sure this phal will be happiest in it. It's a NOID Phal purchased from a grocery store a few years ago that just grew far too big for its pot and kept tipping over when it's two babies.

RosieC · #2 04-12-2010, 03:11 PM

Don't trim firm roots. Roots can get stained and you can get all sorts of colour good roots. Green/silver is a guidline for good roots, but the main thing is whether they are firm so if they are don't trim them.

The bark may not hold water well if you did not soak it lots before use. It actually looks like good stuff in the pictures of the Phal, but the good quality stuff is VERY VERY dry in storage (to stop it going off) and so you have to soak it for at least 24 hours, I actually like to soak for several days (changing the water each day). As bark gets older it holds more water which can suffercate the roots when it gets too bad.

phirephly · #3 04-12-2010, 04:39 PM

OK, after soaking it for 30 minutes or so, it's now laying in another bowl bare root. I did find some mushy roots. Some of them are mushy, but they have firm growths coming off them that are only forking off the mushy... so should I cut off that mushy and that good firm fork? Also, there's a particular root that's weirder... it's got a little mushy in the middle and then a long spotted root. Looks weird, it's firm, but I'm pretty sure it has to go.

phirephly · #4 04-12-2010, 04:43 PM

I don't think I soaked the bark enough when I initially re-potted them. It was a quick re-potting after the billionth fall from the top heavy keikis. Poorly planned and using available supplies on hand. I soaked the bark only about half a day.

phirephly · #5 04-12-2010, 05:26 PM

OK, I've reviewed the situation more now and cut off a bunch of roots. There's one big root that I hate to cutoff, but I think I have to. It starts at the crown mushy and brown for a centimeter, then white for 4 inches or so, and then two green forks. Everything but that part closest to the crown looks good. It's the longest root. There are other roots, but a lot have been trimmed. A lot of the dark colored roots really weren't firm like the white and green colored one. With slightly more pressure, they collapsed and smooshed about half as easily as the very obvious rotted pieces. This is my first time trimming the roots, obviously.

dounoharm · #6 04-12-2010, 06:49 PM

as rosie said, the bark didnt look all that bad in the photo, but you certainly didnt soak it enuf....it has to be 'loaded' with water when you first pot with it...i would repot in bark cause thats what i use the best...i dont know anything about s/h....but with the bark well soaked the plant should get enuf water to last it a few days, then soak the pot again, phals never should go completely dry in bark....your plants dont really look all that dehydrated, i would give it some more time in whatever media you choose...up to 2-3 months to get acclimateded to a new medium anyway.....whatever you do, do it consistantly, and do it before noon....

phirephly · #7 04-12-2010, 07:07 PM

Ok, I ended up trimming a bit more roots. The final result has about half the original roots. I've potted it up in the SH stuff, mainly because I want to watch it's roots better and I really like the SH with my other plants. I also potted it into a smaller pot (a dixie cup with holes punched) and took the non-blooming baby and repotted it too.

The mother is a month into SH acclimation so I think it makes sense to leave her in SH, except smaller pot and closer watch on her roots.

The baby was in bark, but absolutely no rot and active root growth/conversion from one of it's buried former aerial roots. It's also gone into SH now, mostly due to it's relative health (except dry leaves), active growth, and lack of prepared bark. I already had pellets prepared.

KHaze · #8 04-12-2010, 07:25 PM

Okay...I don't have a lot of experience here but I have a thought so take it or leave it...your choice.

I just planted my two phals in SH yesterday, but I did a lot of reading about it before I did. As I understand all of your old roots will die in the new medium because they won't be able to adapt. As they are dying, new ones grow and take their place.

I'd move over to the semi hydro forum and ask them...they will probably be able to tell you better what's going on.

Ray is a good one to ask for advice too. He's a big semi hydro guy. He seem to frequent the SH forum.

Good luck! I hope they make it.

phirephly · #9 04-14-2010, 08:49 AM

Re: bark differences

Today, I realized why I don't like the old bark and it seems the onc has "better" bark. The onc bark is a mix of CHC and some other stuff, but mostly CHC. I never had CHC before and didn't realize. But, I've learned that I really like it. It's easy to tell when it's wet, it's extremely light when dry, it's extremely heavy when wet, it changes color, it's squishy like a sponge, what's not to love? I had no idea that's what CHC was like and that's why I was having trouble comparing the two pots of stuff.

RosieC · #10 04-14-2010, 09:25 AM

I agree about CHC. I really like it as well. Just be careful if you buy some to repot. It lets out a LOT of colour when soaked and there has been some discussion on OB about the salts that also may need washing out of it. I usually soak it for several days, changing the water daily. The last batch has been soaking over a week and is likely to have been two weeks by the time I actually use it.