Vanda/Dendrobium/Ascda New Orchids--HELP

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Now if you're confused about what a species name, a natural hybrid name, or a man-made hybrid name looks like, feel free to ask.

But I'll give you the simpler explanations first.

1. Species names: Simple. Genus names are always capitalized. Species names are always lower case.

2. Natural hybrid names: This is a bit more complicated.

Natural hybrid names will look like species names, but in between the genus name and the species name, you'll see a little "x".

You guessed it! The "x" means "cross".

However, it will not say which species crossed with which species.

Instead there's just a species name after the "x".

Why?

Well, at one point in time during their naming of species, taxonomists once thought these natural hybrids were true species and therefore were named as species plants. However, they later found out that they weren't true species, but rather hybrids found in the wild, instead of re-organizing things, they just put an "x" next to the given species name.

Here's an example of what a natural hybrid name will look like:

Phal x gernotii

or...

Phal x leucorrhoda

Be aware that some orchid vendors will sell natural hybrids and not list them using the proper taxonomic format.

For example, I bought a Phal x leucorrhoda and had a hard time doing research because the tag was written as if it was a species and I was looking for information as if it was a species. I later found out (with great difficulty, because I wasn't quite sure if the information I had on it being a natural hybrid was accurate) that it was a natural hybrid.

Knowing these things always helps out with knowing your plant and their requirements.

It also helps out if you're being pretty selective about the kinds of plants you want to grow because of whatever reasons (it's usually because of space or choosing which plants are more important to you).


Now that this is out of the way...

I'll let other people who explain the whole issue of man-made hybrid names much better than I can take the show.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Sorry...

Couldn't continue, I was busy and tired. Had to go to bed.

Anyways...

You're asking about cultural requirements for Phals...

Well...

There happens to be a bazillion answers to your questions here on the OB regarding Phals. All written in plain English!

Just do a search on the OB search engine.

I'll post a link of pictures of Phals in the wild, so you can see where the wild brethren of your plants come from:

Phalaenopsis in situ - Flickr: Search

BTW, in-situ, is Latin for "on site" or another way of saying in the natural habitat.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Likewise, for Dendrobium cultural info.

Do a search on the OB search engine.

Here's a link to Dendrobiums in the wild:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Dend...=7781630%40N06

[Sandrilene]

orchid soil... doesn't sound good for the types you bought. Sounds more like Terrestrial Orchid stuff to me. I would definitely switch to a bark mix if thats the case.

[JenHowlett]

Thank you for your patient answers, I appreciate all of the Latin translations, but I guess my uncertainties are much more a matter of practice rather than of definitions and nomenclature (I have a full and thorough understanding of the basic book knowledge and word origins).

I'll try asking more direct questions. With my Phals, I know that I should soak the pot in standing water for about ten minutes about every week- allowing the "soil" to dry out in between; more sun=more water and vice versa. I've read that they should be repotted yearly because they tend to break down their potting medium [bark] quicker than other varieties. When repotting, the plant should be rinsed and the roots snipped down to a few inches (being familiar with "normal" plants in which you preserve the root structure and atttempt to disturb the root ball as little as possible, this seems entirely sacrilege)- hence my question about six inch roots growing at a 45 degree angle up and out of the pot and whether to cut them. I've always related the "keep slightly shaded" directions to mean to put near a window, but not directly on the windowsill itself. My husband is military and we just moved to our new house so I'm still waiting to see if the southeast kitchen window is appropriate or if they need to be moved to a more shaded location upstairs (I'm thinking the bathroom humidity would be beneficial).

Unless you're going to set me right on one of the above statements, that's a good summary of my practical orchid knowledge. My real uncertainties lie more with how the Dens, Vandas, and Ascdas vary from the Phals (assuming I've got the Phals right): do I still snip the roots? Would one of the three varieties absolutely need the humidity that a bathroom would provide? Does one of them need light such that they should be hung in front of or placed directly on the windowsill rather than being back away a little bit?

I'm sorry to bombard you with so many questions, but unfornately the internet (and even books) are saturated with "this is where orchids originate", "this is where the term 'orchid' comes from", or "these are then names for the orchid petals" and the actual "how to" stuff is either very techinical (I'm not a botany student) or severely dumbed down (everybody knows that plants need light and water).

Thanks

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

First thing's first. I'm going to put out a disclaimer before I get blasted for doing something somebody doesn't like.

If I sound elementary, it's not to offend. If I ask certain questions a certain way and it appears offensive, don't take it the wrong way. Do also keep in mind, I don't know who you are and what you're like. I can't assume anything. With the communication being over the internet, I'm not getting any visual clues as to what you know, what you don't know, what you're feeling or thinking.

With that out of the way...

Phalaenopsis are way different in culture compared to Dendrobiums, Ascocendas, Ascocentrums, and Vandas.

If you looked at the links I posted, you'll see what Phals look like in their natural habitat.

The link for the Dendrobium will also clue you in on the natural habitat as well.

I'm going to get a little philosophical and maybe a tad esoteric here...

I posted those links so you can look at those pics of these orchids in the wild.

This is so you have a sense of place for your plants. I'd like to believe that those pics would be insightful as to where to start as far as what to do in culture.

Cultivation of plants is imitating what the plants experience in the wild, and taking it to the next level through grooming and training. It's not about doing whatever you want with the plant and making it bend to your whims (I'm aware that this may not be your mindset, but I'm just saying that's all).

Just from the pictures alone, it's pretty obvious Phalaenopsis and Dendrobiums are not even from the same micro-habitat.

These pictures of orchids in the wild speaks volumes. It's more than I could ever say or describe in words.

With that said...

Addressing one of your specific questions.

Q: Do I trim the roots or not?

The answer is:

Never trim living roots, ever!

Especially with something like Vandas, Ascocentrums, Ascocendas, and Phalaenopsis.

Ascocendas, Ascocentrums, Phalaenopsis, and Vandas are all relatively slow growing plants! If you cut the roots, you will severly hinder the progress of your plants!

Problems with root rot may occur. And the site of infection is usually at the cut.

The leaves will shrivel as a result of dehydration because of a damaged root system.

The plant could end up being stunted.

They may refuse to flower and skip a blooming season or two.

Worse case scenario, and it's actually the most likely scenario if you cut the roots, it will result in a slow decline and eventually death!

I repeat, do not intentionally cut the living roots of any orchid at all! Not any species. Not any hybrid. None!

Most people have a difficult enough time trying to keep the roots of their orchids alive to begin with!

Whoever is advising that you cut the roots down to a few inches is not giving out the correct advice!

Even with fast growing orchids, the intentional cutting of the roots should never be practiced at all! Despite them being fast growing, even these will rapidly decline if there's massive root damage.

Only dead roots should be trimmed down and removed.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Okay...

Let's test you on how well you really know your terms.

Evergreen Phalaenopsis is a group of monopodial orchids that grow as epiphytes in low to mid-elevation tropical jungles all throughout Asia, usually occurring in swamp forests or in areas near rivers or streams.

As a result of being near so much water, the humidity is usually fairly high (60% - 100%).

Water is also in relatively good abundance. Which means, they're not often exposed to conditions of long droughts.

Their growth orientation in the wild is not upright. Rather, they grow horizontally or pendulously from the branches or trunks of medium to small sized trees. These trees usually have little to no live moss growing on them.

This growth orientation in the wild prevents the plant from contracting problems such as crown rot.

These guys are normally found in the lower canopies of the forest. They aren't found at nosebleed heights in trees.

Because of this, light levels are low.

There are several methods you can use to grow a Phalaenopsis.

Many people prefer potting them up versus using mounted culture. I recommend using medium to large grade bark as a potting medium rather than full-on Sphagnum moss. A Sphagnum moss top dressing is fine if the medium dries out too fast.

The reason being, orchid roots need to have a good balance of moisture and air.

Mounted culture works just fine, and it is what I use to grow all my Phals.

Semi-hydroponics (SH) methods are also another alternative.

Being that they're from the low to mid-elevation areas of tropical Asia, temperatures are intermediate to warm (60 F - 90 F).

They need to experience a slight seasonal chill within the temperature range stated above in order to put out an inflorescence.

Day and night time temperatures should have at least a 10 degree F difference, again, within the range that is stated above.

If you wanna get specific with the temperatures, annual rainfall percentages, and humidity levels throughout the year, you can do your own research of the orchid's country or region of origin.

From the crown in between the leaf axils, you will normally see a new leaf emerging. This new leaf is still very soft and fragile. You must take care not to damage this leaf or the Phal has a very high chance of dying. Over time this leaf will "harden" (actually it's more like, it becomes more lignified - lignin is a cellular material that makes the leaves and stems of a plant rigid). Lignified is the scientific term, "harden" is the horticultural term.

On a final note, the roots of Phalaenopsis (or any "green rooted" orchid for that matter) are able to photosynthesize to some degree or another.

Here're a couple of book recommendations if you don't already own them:

Understanding Orchids: An Uncomplicated Guide to Growing the World's Most Exotic Plants by William Cullina:

http://books.google.com/books?id=K6Y...age&q=&f=false

Moth Orchids: The Complete Guide to Phalaenopsis by Stephen A. Frowine:

http://books.google.com/books?id=9gd...age&q=&f=false

[chilover]

The light requirements for your different orchids are quite different. I grow my phals in an east or west window right on the window sill. I live in Michigan and the light is not as bright as some of the west and south states. My vandas and dends are in a south or west window with supplemental lighting. In the summer the dends and the vandas go outside where the vandas get a lot of light and the dends are placed in bright light but not direct sun light. I've found the dends unless they're the nobile type, don't like getting chilled at all. Vandas require a lot more watering than the others also.

Good luck with them all, it's exciting to watch them grow and flower.

Cathy

[Angurek]

Originally Posted by JenHowlett

Okay, so I love orchids and while on vacation this weekend, my husband took me to a botanical gardens in Florida. My Valentine's gift was six new orchids from the gift shop- all 6-8 inches tall, just the leaves/stem with leaves and roots in good shape. I've planted all of them in orchid potting soil and I've spent the last couple of hours on the internet deciphering what the jibberish on labels actually mean and finding photos of what they'll look like when they grow up to bloom.

I've identified five of the six as best I can:
1. Den Oriental Smile 'Fantasy'
2. V Gordon Dillon x V Annette Jones
3. Ascda Krailerk White-V Kultana Gold x Ascda Jakrit Gold
4. Den Love Memory 'Fit'
5. Den Red Emperor 'Prince'
(6.) Ascda (it says "lenanchal", but this is the one I haven't been able to figure out)

Anyways, I've figured out that the dendrobiums, vandas, and ascocendas require different light/water/rest conditions than the four phalaenopses I already have but I'm having difficulty figuring out from all of the orchid websites exactly how to care for them (in plain English, that is).

Somewhat unrelated, my phalaenopses are doing well in the windowsill and have grown rootlike structures (I think they're called 'rhizomes') up above and out of the soil in the pots. Should I cut these off to promote flowering or leave them as they are?

Your den's appear to be nobile-type hybrids. Since I haven't grown this type of den, I'll let the other members chime in with their cultural requrements.

I can, however, help you out with your vandaceous plants. Vandas are high-maintenance orchids, and I wouldn't really recommend them to people who are fairly new to the hobby. They can also become very large plants and, consequently, tough to accomodate indoors.

They need high light, good air circulation, and lots of water to grow and bloom well. They also need high humidity; if the humidity drops, the roots shrivel and dry up, which is not a good thing (as soon as a vanda has lost its roots, it will start to lose its leaves). I'm not sure how your vanda is potted, but if it's sitting bare-root in a basket (as most usually are), you can water it every day. I usually soak mine in the shower for ten minutes once daily (twice if it's hot). I water early enough in the day that the leaves can be dry before dusk. That way, a fungal infection doesn't develop in the leaf axils. If your vanda is potted in a medium, don't water until the medium is approaching dryness. Otherwise, you risk rotting the roots. Vandas can be fertilized with the "weekly weakly" schedule most of the year, though you can cut back on the fertilizing in the fall and winter.

Ascocendas are similar to normal vandas in both cultural requirements and appearance. They're usually much more compact in size, with smaller flowers. I hear that they are easier to bloom in northern areas than are normal vandas.

Good luck with your plants. I hope they'll grow well and bloom for you for many years.

[orkie]

Your 3 Dens are Yamamoto hybrids (I have Love Memory and Emp. Prince myself). Here is how ai grow mine (and I had 98 flowers on the Love Memory this year, so I'm doing ok with them).

From late May until Thanksgiving-ish (no less than 40 degree nights in general) these plants live in west facing sun on my fire escape. They get some direct sun (they need to be acclimated to it though or will burn). They are potted in coconut husk chips. While outdoors they get watered and fertilized every 3-5 days depending on rain. In august I stop all fertilizer and just keep watering. As it gets colder, I don't water nearly as much, especially b.c there is still rain. Once they come in, they live in a west facing window getting as much sun as possible. I water once every 2-3 weeks thouroughly, but no fert. Once the buds form, I up the watering to every 10-12 days or so, and now that flowering is done for mine and they are starting new growth, I'm starting to fert and water more regularily again.

You may want to check out the Yamamoto website, since these are his specialty.