Vivarium Experiment

[vmax3000]

So pretty!! I am working on starting up a terrarium, so it's always good to see what others have done.

Andy sells well established plants, so he's put effort and time into the plant. I have found cheaper seedling types from Oak Hill and Carter and Holmes. C&H sells them even cheaper in the "dug-up" category. Tropical Orchid Farm offers some neat little pleuros for very reasonable prices.

Although, I can totally understand wanting a really cheap one. I'd say, do what you like...but share pictures. The little frog is really cool!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Oh...

I didn't initially catch that you also have a Dendrobates leucomelas too!

Is one a male and the other a female?

[harrywitmore]

Since you are looking for plants from Panama, I did a fairly extensive list of plants I had or still have that are native to Panama. Many are orchids but there are also Pepeomia and Gesneriads. You may want to take a look at it.

Cloud Jungle Epiphytes - Plant Catalog

I can highly recommend Pleurothallis allenii. It's an awesome plant and not big. But, I would not hesitate to try some of the Lowes plants. They may outgrow your space but they will look good doing it or die trying.

[kaitala]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Nice Dendrobates azureus btw.

I used to own a couple of Dendrobates ventrimaculatus.

And quite a few Oophaga (Dendrobates) pumilio "Blue Jeans".

One day I'd like to restart the hobby.

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Oh...

I didn't initially catch that you also have a Dendrobates leucomelas too!

Is one a male and the other a female?

Thanks! The azureus and leucomelas are actually being housed in a 20L tank as juvenile groups of 4 each. They are about 3-4 months old now, and are growig fast so I'll have a new viv to plant very soon.

I also have a group of 5 D. auratus. They're breeding and I have 3 froglets out of the water and two more soon to come out.

Vents and bluejeans! Nice! I have the easy-keeper type of frogs, but a friend has promised to send me some vittatus if they morph out okay.

[kaitala]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Pleurothallis allenii is from Panama. This plant only tops out at 3". It's only $18 at Andy's. I bet you can find this species elsewhere for a bit less. This one will bloom whenever it feels like it, so you can essentially see flowers all year round sporadically. It grows in cloud forests and can be mounted. These grow much, much faster than a Phal or a Catt. Don't be surprised if within a year of being grown properly that this species will double in size.

Plths segoviensis is another great mini, I've grown these before. Tops off at no more than 3". Can put out sprays of flowers. Originates from Panama, according to Andy. It's sold for $16.

None of the ones listed as being from Panama are $35.

Catts are high light orchids. They will not grow well in your conditions. By Cattleyas, I mean the actual genus as well as all the intergenerics (i.e. Blc, C, Epc, Lc, Slc, etc). They also get too large for your viv.

Laelias will not work either. In fact, most of the epiphytical Laelias are enormous, many can get to be a foot tall to 5 feet tall depending on the species. The only miniature epiphytical Laelia I know of is Laelia alaori, but your conditions are not bright enough and might be too wet.

While the genus Sophronitis consists of miniature species, they're not suited to your vivarium as well because they grow in bright light and it may be too wet for them in your tank.

Phals on the other hand can grow in your conditions better, but the larger ones get much too large for your tank. Although they grow relatively slower than, say, some of the ferns in your viv, you'll be surprised by how fast they can potentially grow. More often than not, it's only 1 to 2 leaves per year, but sometimes they can be very vigorous growers putting out 3 to 4 leaves in one growing season. Then there's the spike. Not to mention the roots (the roots grow much, much faster than the leaves do), some of these Phals have fairly large root systems.

There are mini Phals, if you're going to try. But if the NOID hybrid mini Phals spike, all bets are off, as I don't know how large it'll get and if they grow upright or pendulously, or whatever. There are just too many hybrids out there for me to keep into account. Maybe other members can give you suggestions as to what kinds of hybrid mini Phals fit in your viv. NOID mini Phals are sold in places like Lowe's as well.

Maybe something like Phal 'Mini Mark' would work (since it's a named variety it may cost you a pretty penny).

Or if you like species, something like Phal gibbosa, Phal lobbii, or Phal parishii would work for you. There are more mini Phal species but these should be the easier ones to grow that have short spikes. These are not terribly expensive, but they won't be $2 to $5.

Thanks for the very thorough reply! I've been poking around some shopping sites, what about Paphiopedilum?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by kaitala

Thanks! The azureus and leucomelas are actually being housed in a 20L tank as juvenile groups of 4 each. They are about 3-4 months old now, and are growig fast so I'll have a new viv to plant very soon.

I also have a group of 5 D. auratus. They're breeding and I have 3 froglets out of the water and two more soon to come out.

Vents and bluejeans! Nice! I have the easy-keeper type of frogs, but a friend has promised to send me some vittatus if they morph out okay.

Wow! That's a lot of frogs! You're lucky you've got a friend who could help you out with these! They're not cheap!

Originally Posted by kaitala

Thanks for the very thorough reply! I've been poking around some shopping sites, what about Paphiopedilum?

If you're going with Paphs, why not go with Phragmipediums instead?

Phrags are South American slipper orchids, and they grow wetter than Paphs.

Some of the Phrags grow on rocks that are consistently moist. They grow in shady conditions.

Many Phrags are large, some like Phrag fischeri are somewhat smaller.

I'm not the slipper orchid expert. This is the extent to which I can answer. There are others who can answer the Paph and Phrag question better than I.

[kaitala]

I went to rescue more orchids at Lowes. In a few short days, I've learned how REALLY in bad shape these poor things are. What are the white fuzzy pillbug looking bugs that infest them? (I'm sure they're quite common). Some with NO leaves at all. It was sad. And my rescues aren't doing so well. Lost a leaf from my Phal, and one on the Den has black spots and is turning yellow.

I need a trip to the library, and some better quality plants, I think. Probably a bad decision for a beginner to try to nurse these guys back to health, but it was worth a shot.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by kaitala

I went to rescue more orchids at Lowes. In a few short days, I've learned how REALLY in bad shape these poor things are.

Many are in terrible shape. That's why many people have recommended either picking the best plants you can find out of the lot at places like Lowes, or purchasing plants from better sources.

Originally Posted by kaitala

What are the white fuzzy pillbug looking bugs that infest them? (I'm sure they're quite common).

Yes, they're quite common on weakened plants.

They're mealy bugs (mealies for short).

Rubbing alcohol kills them instantly.

Ants farm these guys by the way.

Originally Posted by kaitala

Some with NO leaves at all. It was sad. And my rescues aren't doing so well. Lost a leaf from my Phal, and one on the Den has black spots and is turning yellow.

Originally Posted by kaitala

I need a trip to the library, and some better quality plants, I think. Probably a bad decision for a beginner to try to nurse these guys back to health, but it was worth a shot.

Better quality plants are always a good idea for beginner or advanced growers alike.

Here's the thing about Phal hybrids...

They're cloned by the masses. You won't be able to save them all. If it's not impossible, it's highly improbable.

They're pretty much "manufactured". Kinda weird isn't it?

Plant biotechnology has taken agriculture and horticulture to a whole new level. Especially with the many advances in plant tissue culture (aka plant micropropagation).

They've got tissue culture down cold and they're making even further advances as we speak.

Saving these Phal hybrid clones, is in my opinion, not worth it.

This goes for pretty much many of the cloned varieties of orchid hybrids.

Saving the rarer species orchids is what is truly needed.

There will always be hybrids, especially when the species are around to produce them.

But if the species is gone, it's gone.

Here's a book recommendation, see if you like it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=K6Y...age&q=&f=false

[vmax3000]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Here's a book recommendation, see if you like it:

Understanding orchids: an ... - Google Books

Good one! The book that was the most helpful to me when I first started growing (and killing) orchids was The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Orchids by Alec Pridgeon. I found myself reaching for it to learn something about a plant prior to investing money, time and effort. I am sure one or both of these, along with many others, are at a nearby library.

Sorry about the black mushy rootless death stuff. In my experience, the stores that supply these hybrids usually don't have an orchidist on staff, so the plants tend to suffer bouts of drought followed by the flood to end all floods. It's sad, really, but I agree with King. Mass produced hybrids for the potted plant industry is probably not the place to start for a good, quality plant. You end up with a possibly poor hybrid and mistake it's death as something you did wrong.

Pick a nifty species that catches your eye and will thrive with the frogs. In my mind, a little pleuro (I am biased, here ) would put on a wicked cool display that would enhance your already interesting viv.

[got ants]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Ants farm these guys by the way.

I do? You trying to make me out to be like Dale on King of the Hill?

What kind do you need? Fire Ants? Bullet Ants?