sphag n bag without using root hormone?

[ayumiko]

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to use the sphag n bag technique without applying any root hormone products? If it is necessary to apply, can I replace it with some kind of home remedy? Thanks!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I don't like the sphag and bag method. It's the bagging part that I don't like. Bagging prevents proper air circulation and creates the perfect environment for fungus.

How bad's the damage anyways? If it's not that bad, then rooting hormones is not necessary, just provide proper air circulation for the plant and high humidity.

I'm assuming you're trying to save a Phal, so the air circualtion can be a slight breeze. But the humidity should be as high as possible, nothing below 60%, but 80% is usually good enough.

[ayumiko]

I attached pics of my phal. When I bought this, it was in a 4" pot packed in moss. I took it out, removed the moss and the roots look like that. There's only 2 roots that are greenish. The rest is dried and yellow. I potted it in bark mix...should I repot it in a different medium or try sphag n bag?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4/P1010762.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4/P1010769.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...4/P1010759.jpg

What can I do to save this plant? Please help!~

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Wow...that's very bad.

Those two roots that are still looking green...

Well...

You're not gonna like what I'm gonna tell you.

They aren't gonna make it.

Which would eventually leave your Phal without roots.

Maybe, you should get a refund.

Look, I'll be honest. The chances are pretty low that you'll succeed in saving it, but if you like, you can give it a shot.

You'd need a rooting hormone product like KLN or if you want just the hormone itself look up Phytotech Lab (Plant Growth Research & Development | PhytoTechnology Laboratories) and look under Auxins for plant hormones. IAA or IBA is what you might need.

All of the above about the air circulation and the humidity still applies.

Of course the cost and time effective method is to just get a refund and get another one or exchange it for another healthier Phal.

If you want to know what a healthy Phal looks like, look here in the Beginner's section and find the thread "Wanted to share my spike." by a person by the screen name Pilot. He posted a pic of a very healthy Phal. I highly recommend you check it out and the next time you go shopping for a Phal, make a relative comparison.

Good selection is the best remedy to headaches concerning initial problems. Learning good cultural practices nearly eliminates most of the others.

I apologize if this is not what you want to read.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Selection for an orchid requires you always check the roots first. Then the leaves.

Flowers are not really a good indicator for health, unless you're checking for possible viral infections. But viral infections are not that common, relative to bacterial or fungal issues.

Mechanical damage of the flowers is of no consequence other than it may not look pretty.

Mechanical damage to the leaves, plant, or roots should ideally be very minimal and the damage (should there be any) should not occur in vital points of the plant. One vital point is the new leaf.

I sometimes still fall victim to not checking the roots and the plant, while paying too much attention to the flowers. So I know how much discipline goes into checking the roots first then the plant. It's a total retraining process.

If the plant is throwing off kheikis, it's most likely a stress response and is bailing itself out. I just this year noticed that this saying may very well hold true for Den. kingianum as well, an orchid famous for throwing out numerous kheikis frivolously. My Den. kingianum never kheikis...but I cultivate mine as a lithophyte (which it naturally is) compared to how it's mostly sold as (an epiphyte).

Anyways...off topic, but I'm trying to illustrate a point.

In regards to Phals; a healthy Phal will usually not kheiki often.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

If you decide to keep the plant, it's probably best to mount it. If you pot it, you'd be over potting anyways.

Find a piece of cork bark and put a thin layer of moss over the wood and cover the entire surface of the mount, and use fishing line to tie the Phal onto the wood. Check out the Mounting section here on the OB. You'll see a few pics for how it's done.

Place the plant horizontally, with the crown facing the front. The leaf tips should point downwards towards the ground. When mounted properly, the leaves should look like it's arranged in an upside down "V" pattern. Point the crown in the direction of the light source. This is how a Phal naturally grows. That's why in nature crown rot is not a common problem. It's only in cultivation when people grow it upright that crown rot is so prevalent.

[isurus79]

I never use rooting hormone on my spag n bag plants. You can use it, but honestly it will most likely just turn into a mushy goo inside whatever container you use. I like to use large solid containers (like those really big clear plastic pretzel containers from Costco) instead of a bag. Then, fill the container with an inch of water and attach the plant to an upside down pot (or anything) to keep the plant well above the water and put on the lid. It should work well.

[MT-Phal]

Does anyone take precautions to prevent mold during a shag and bag? If so, what do you do? I had my phal in tupperware, with a half inch of water at the bottom and a plastic bag over it, and it was mold city after a couple days. No big deal since it was super easy to clean, but a pain no less.

[Ray]

Stop for a moment and consider the purpose of sphag-n-bag:

A plant naturally wants to survive, to carry on the gene pool, and given a chance, will grow new roots and get reestablished so it can do so.

Unfortunately, with no roots the plant has no way to take up water, so it is at risk of desiccating and dying before it can grow those new ones.

In comes sphag-n-bag...

By enclosing the plant somehow - covered fish tank, plastic bag, etc. - you create a small greenhouse enclosure to contain humidity to slow that drying process. The sphagnum (or paper towel) is intended to be the moisture source for raising the humidity. It is NOT supposed to be in contact with the plant at all. Sphagnum is preferred, as it has some natural, inherent fungicidal properties, so won't grow mold by itself.

If you are seeing mold on the plant, it is because you have left dead or dying, decomposable tissue on it. Before sphag-n-bag, I find it is wise to clean off all marginal-looking tissue and give the plant a brief dip in a weak Physan solution so you are not introducing potential pathogens into the enclosed space.

Back to the original question, the use of rooting hormones is not absolutely necessary, but as it does speed up the plant's growth of roots so it can start to take up water again, it has obvious advantages.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

You know what...

I forgot to mention this.

The next time you buy a Phal, repot immediately. Most of them are grown in full on sphag and they're usually all compacted. Sometimes that moss is rotting in the pot.

For the sake of saving yourself some grief, saving some money, and saving yourself the opportunity to say orchids suck cause they're hard to grow (which is not true)...

Always repot your Phals immediately into medium or large grade bark (with or without a thin layer of moss as top dressing - depends on growing conditions), or mount the plant.

If your area is too dry for potting or mounting, grow using semi-hydroponics.