Help with Sphag n' Bag Techniques

[Douglas Scanlan]

That solves the mystery of why the plant attendant at the local grocery store who I buy Phals from sometimes always has her pots soaking wet, and in Sphag. She dunks the pots about once a week, and her Phals look great- with huge green root masses. I could never figure out how that worked based on all the information cautioning against so much water in the pot. Needless to say I try to get them used to a very different pot climate once I get them home, and that is how I wind up with this root problem in the first place.
Thank you both Jerry and Ray. Ray I recognize you from your website which I visited recently.
I am fairly certain I do not want to pot in Sphag permanently, although I am tempted to use it to get some new roots started. I am leaning toward S/H for my next effort. Ray I think I have read that you caution against using anything to start new roots that differs from its final destination media. What about using Sphag for the first few weeks until I get some new roots started? Then switching to S/H early on. Maybe even continueing the plastic bag as a greenhouse cover for the first few weeks after transferring the new roots from Sphag to S/H?

[Judi]

If sphag has anti fungal properties and lasts from 6-12 months, does it have a shelf life--that is before it is used in potting? And are there different grades of sphag and if so, is it usually marked on the package? I have sphag I purchased from a nursery maybe a year ago, but most of it is still unused. I also bake potting medium that I purchase if I question whether it may harbor kreepy-crawlies--would this affect the quality of any sphag that might be in the mix?

[ohanahana]

douglas, it's a little embarrassing, but let me show you what i've done with the sphag/bag...

they have been bagged a good couple of weeks and i'm seeing good signs in the foliage and some new roots are appearing.

the reason i have so many (mostly catts, a few phals) is because i repotted them in the wrong type of medium when i first bought them. Fafard and Miracle Gro's Orchid Mix. they both packed down after a couple of waterings. the Fafard might have been too old in the first place. plus, although they were placed in a south facing site, the overhang shade was too much. i ended up overwatering and having to cut off pretty much all the roots!

anyway, they are sealed in the bags and up high on the wall where it's a little warmer and brighter. i hope they do well and i hope yours do too!

[camille1585]

I've never managed to revive a rootless Phal, but seem to do OK with ones that still have a few roots left. What seems to work is putting the plant in a bag with the roots wrapped in moist sphag. I leave the bag just a little bit open at the top. The leaves plump up nicely after a week or so, but the new roots still take a while to appear.

I would leave the roots that are dead in some places and green on other parts. They are still helping the plant for now, and once it grows some nice new roots you can probably do away with those half dead ones.

[Douglas Scanlan]

Those are good questions Judi, I'd like to know the answers to that myself. I just bought some Sphag for my plastic bag reviving project and I don't even know how long the sphag has been in storage at the shop. It's not like it comes with an expiration date. But I was thinking similar questions.

Ohanahana, Wow! Now I feel much better about mine, HaHa. Thanks for the pics, that is pretty much what I envision for mine, but I am going to use a small container/pot to stand the plant up inside the bag, and I'm going to use a heating pad underneath. Also I'll get a bigger bag and try to keep the leaves not in direct contract with the moist inside surface of the bag. I'm doing all of this today.

Camille. I started off agreeing with you, but since I am bagging this plant, I decided to cut off many of the half dead roots, which still leaves more than most people start with when bagging. I don't want the plant to think that it has enough roots, since I am trying to stimulate new growth.

[camille1585]

I don't think sphag has an expiration date, as long as your buying it dry, like those compressed sphag bricks. The 'souring' process starts when you start watering it regularily. I've had some super long strang sphag for over a year (used only wrap Neofinetia sphag mounds). I remounded the Neos not long ago and the sphag is fine!

[Douglas Scanlan]

I just bought some for my sphag n' bag project and I just put it to use an hour ago. Wish me luck!

[orchidsamore]

Sphag does not have an expiration date. As mentioned it starts to decompose only when wet.

The anti-fungal properties are only in long fiber sphagnum, but that is the only type commonly sold. That is why I did not mentioned it.

New Zealand and Chile work about the same. New Zealand is cleaner with less stems to clean out but is almost never available. I have used both with no problems for either.

Chile has many different grades but only the best AAAAA seems to be sold. Shipping is probably more expensive than the product so no one seems to cut corners and buy cheaper.

When potting with Sphag it is best to use it in a loose pack.

[Douglas Scanlan]

Thanks for that. The long fiber Sphag I just bought is from Wisconsin. Hope that is good too.

[Sharon's Sheepdogs]

Doug,

Thought I'd go ahead and add my two cents into this discussion. I am a member of Ray's S/H forum as well as this one and grow all of my orchids in S/H which I prefer. Last week I posted a question in the S/H forum regarding slow root growth. The answer Ray provided me with will answer your question about temporarily using sphag.

First, since it sounds like you might be interested in trying S/H, it is important that you wait until there is new root growth on the orchid. It is the new roots that will acclimate to the prime agra (or lava rock) used in S/H with the older roots dying off.

Ray's response to my question about new roots dying off before they're long enough to reach the prime agra was that I should try using a light layer of moist sphag temporarily until the roots start growing steadily. I moisten the sphag overnight by soaking it in KLN rooting solution. To answer your question, it appears the temporary use of sphag will not be dentrimental to the new roots acclimating to a different medium.

Ray also recommends use of a horticultural heating mat which I have begun using. I use the mat under the orchids with new root growth which I am attempting to move into S/H from a different medium such as bark.

As to the sphag & bag, if you are already growing in a warm, humid area, I don't think you need to use it if you are using a heating mat. However, you will have to reduce the lighting so the orchid places all of it's energy into growing just the roots. I have also read many times that, if you place an orchid in a bag to increase humidity to encourage root growth, you should put a couple holes in the top of the bag. Too much humidity might cause the orchid to rot.

A technique recommended by another orchid website which I've used succesfully suggests that you remove the orchid from it's regular media and place it in a clay pot without any media. You continue to water the orchid as you normally would until you see new root growth. When the clay pot is wet, it increases humidity around the orchid which helps the roots grow. When not watering, I sometimes spray the interior sides of the clay pot just to increase the humidity. This technique will save you the time spent potting an orchid in new media that you're not sure you can get new roots to grow from anyway.

As soon as I see any nodules or small roots, I place a little sphag soaked in KLN around the area temporarily as Ray suggested. Each morning, I spray the sphag which has dried by then with same KLN solution to keep it moist. The moist sphag helps prevent the roots from drying out and dying which was a problem I had. As soon as I see the roots are "taking off", I transplant into the S/H media.

Since I've started adding the moist sphag and the heating mat, I definitely see improvement in the root growth. By the way, you can buy New Zealand sphag from either Ray's webite or Quarter Acre Orchids.

Hope some of this info helps.