phal repot, yellow stem and leaf

[Undergrounder]

LOL i can't believe i revealed my secret identity.. Undergrounder is just a name i used on my first ever forum back whens i was a teenager and i hate learning new logins and passwords so i still use it..

I haven't updated my gallery in ages, i have lots of nice photos but they're not online I don't have a lot to show though, i moved my Phals this year to a lower light when they were in bud and i got lots of bud drops as a result.

What i mean about the leaf thing is better explained with scribbles on the back of beer mats but you can see what i mean in your photos.

For instance in the original post on that nice light green Phal with the good roots you can see that of the four leaves, the one at the top (the newest one growing from the crown) is slightly longer and fatter than the one immediately below it, which is slightly bigger than the one below it and so on. There's not a big difference, because the plant is fairly mature anyway, but at the very least they're not getting smaller.

Whereas on the other Phals, there are obviously leaves lower down that are much bigger than the ones higher up.

Only the top-most leaf on a Phal. grows at any one time. By the time there is a top leaf growing, the leaves lower down have basically stopped growing. So yes the new leaves always emerge small, but if the plant is happy and increasing in size and vigour, then each new leaf should end up being the biggest one of all, larger than all the others. At least until the one above it starts growing and gets bigger still, and so-on.

Again when they're mature the effect is less obvious and they level out at a certain maximum size. But if the top-most leaf ends up being smaller than the ones below it (by the time it's stopped growing) then the plant is effectively shrinking in size.

The reason for all this has to do with roots. The more roots the plant has, the larger the top leaf can grow. If roots die suddenly, then all of a sudden there's less water being supplied to the plant and it can't support as large a leaf growing from the top. The top leaf will end up smaller relative to the one below it.

That's why you can tell the growth history of a Phal. by looking at the relative size of the leaves, a bit like the rings in the bark of a tree.

This is a pic that shows what i mean... You can see that the oldest leaves, at the bottom of the plant, are smaller, and each one above it is progressively bigger. This pattern indicates a healthy, growing Phal.

If you see large leaves at the bottom, then smaller and smaller leaves ending in the smallest ones at the top, then that would indicate a plant that is slowly losing roots over a period of time and is unable to grow new ones.

If you see large leaves at the bottom, then a few drastically small ones, then slightly bigger ones above those, then that would indicate a plant that was doing well, then got shocked, lost roots, and has been slowly re-growing new roots since.

[VickiC]

Ohhh...I understand now! Thank you, Nick. I'll know now what to look for as my phals grow.

Now, your explanation has brought on another question...I hope you don't mind (I'm guessing that you most likely already realized that I would have one lol) Ok, question: what do you advise that I do about my phals with the small uppermost leaves? (Ex.-the pic. you see here of my red leafted phal and the one to the right of it that is potted in sphag.) Should I unpot them to see how the roots look? If so...what then?

I'm sorry to bother you again, but I would appreciate your advice once more.
Vicki



QUOTE=Undergrounder;263783]LOL i can't believe i revealed my secret identity.. Undergrounder is just a name i used on my first ever forum back whens i was a teenager and i hate learning new logins and passwords so i still use it..

I haven't updated my gallery in ages, i have lots of nice photos but they're not online I don't have a lot to show though, i moved my Phals this year to a lower light when they were in bud and i got lots of bud drops as a result.

What i mean about the leaf thing is better explained with scribbles on the back of beer mats but you can see what i mean in your photos.

For instance in the original post on that nice light green Phal with the good roots you can see that of the four leaves, the one at the top (the newest one growing from the crown) is slightly longer and fatter than the one immediately below it, which is slightly bigger than the one below it and so on. There's not a big difference, because the plant is fairly mature anyway, but at the very least they're not getting smaller.

Whereas on the other Phals, there are obviously leaves lower down that are much bigger than the ones higher up.

Only the top-most leaf on a Phal. grows at any one time. By the time there is a top leaf growing, the leaves lower down have basically stopped growing. So yes the new leaves always emerge small, but if the plant is happy and increasing in size and vigour, then each new leaf should end up being the biggest one of all, larger than all the others. At least until the one above it starts growing and gets bigger still, and so-on.

Again when they're mature the effect is less obvious and they level out at a certain maximum size. But if the top-most leaf ends up being smaller than the ones below it (by the time it's stopped growing) then the plant is effectively shrinking in size.

The reason for all this has to do with roots. The more roots the plant has, the larger the top leaf can grow. If roots die suddenly, then all of a sudden there's less water being supplied to the plant and it can't support as large a leaf growing from the top. The top leaf will end up smaller relative to the one below it.

That's why you can tell the growth history of a Phal. by looking at the relative size of the leaves, a bit like the rings in the bark of a tree.

This is a pic that shows what i mean... You can see that the oldest leaves, at the bottom of the plant, are smaller, and each one above it is progressively bigger. This pattern indicates a healthy, growing Phal.

If you see large leaves at the bottom, then smaller and smaller leaves ending in the smallest ones at the top, then that would indicate a plant that is slowly losing roots over a period of time and is unable to grow new ones.

If you see large leaves at the bottom, then a few drastically small ones, then slightly bigger ones above those, then that would indicate a plant that was doing well, then got shocked, lost roots, and has been slowly re-growing new roots since.[/QUOTE]

[Undergrounder]

Vicki it depends when you last repotted them but you've got a really open medium and lots of air holes in most of those pots so no i think you should just leave them. They need time to recover and lots of water. Don't be afraid to really drench them and don't let them dry out completely between waterings.

Just be sure that over time those leaves do start to steadily get successively bigger.

If you notice you're getting a lot of new roots forming between the leaves above the medium and growing outside the pot, you might need to add some medium or pot the plants deeper so that these new roots grow into the medium and get the water they need. With what few roots you have, you don't want the new ones to be wasted as aerial roots.

[VickiC]

I've wanted to tell you thanks for all of your advice....you've been a big help to me, but I also want to apologize for not being able to thank you before now.
Vicki

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

Vicki it depends when you last repotted them but you've got a really open medium and lots of air holes in most of those pots so no i think you should just leave them. They need time to recover and lots of water. Don't be afraid to really drench them and don't let them dry out completely between waterings.

Just be sure that over time those leaves do start to steadily get successively bigger.

If you notice you're getting a lot of new roots forming between the leaves above the medium and growing outside the pot, you might need to add some medium or pot the plants deeper so that these new roots grow into the medium and get the water they need. With what few roots you have, you don't want the new ones to be wasted as aerial roots.

[Undergrounder]

you're very welcome Vicki! and no need to apologise, you helped me procrastinate a few extra minutes out of doing my psych report so i should be thanking you.. plus you did thank me many times already!

[Orchid126]

VickiC, since you're worried about the medium way down, you might want to use a skewer to monitor how wet it really is.

[VickiC]

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Orchid126

VickiC, since you're worried about the medium way down, you might want to use a skewer to monitor how wet it really is.

[Kath]

In your first photos, I notice that the roots are chock-a-block in the pot. I too have a phal in the same conditions, with roots filling the pot. The advice I recieved was to repott dare, as I'd have to put it in a bigger pot. As it's been flowering for nearly a year, I think I'll just leave it as it i

[VickiC]

Thanks for your advice, Kath. I've decided to wait until Spring to repot it, so I'm glad to hear that you would also leave it as it is.
Vicki

Originally Posted by Kath

In your first photos, I notice that the roots are chock-a-block in the pot. I too have a phal in the same conditions, with roots filling the pot. The advice I recieved was to repott dare, as I'd have to put it in a bigger pot. As it's been flowering for nearly a year, I think I'll just leave it as it i