How do I stop killing my phals

[abszero]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Photos may take awhile since my camera's on loan, but I unpotted it and things generally looked pretty healthy down there. There was one root that came off and was mildly mushy but everything else seemed to be doing pretty well. I also found out there's a bit of sphagnum tucked up into the roots during the process.

On the watering question from billc, I'm sure there's a water softener somewhere in the process as much limestone as we have in Central Texas. But I've heard just about every possible rule on water sources and it's kinda hard to sort them out... use rainwater, use tap water, don't use tap water, use filtered water, etc. So I'm not sure what to make of all that.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Don't think of them as rules, they're guidelines. Some are more appropriate than others. It also depends on the kinds of orchids you grow. Examples of plants you shouldn't water with tap water are all Pleurothallids, Disas, and Pabstia jugosa; these will not tolerate high levels of dissolved minerals.

Another thing to consider is, if you know that your tap water is treated with harsh chemicals, don't use tap.

Many orchids are sensitive to chlorine. Tap water has chlorine. However, tap also has more stuff in it than just chlorine.

So tap water is usually out for most people.

Many people who grow plants that don't tolerate high dissolved minerals in their water use distilled water, RO/DI water, or rainwater.

Do keep in mind that if the water you're using contains water softeners, it's not advisable to use it.

[Undergrounder]

Without pictures and a good check of your conditions abszero i don't think anyone will be able to accurately guess what's going on, i think it might just be the case that you are new to orchids and a little experience will help you more than anything.

When you're new at it you might have a tendency to try to read and apply the advice you've been given and follow all of the 'rules', most of which will contradict and your plant will be worse off because of it. In time you will have to forget these rules and replace them with you're own valuable experiences.

Just use your noggin.. you're right, if the leaves are drooping it's because they're not hydrated enough.

I think the reason for this is because your environment is very dry and you haven't been watering enough.

50% humidity is quite low, and in those conditions they're likely to want lots of water. In addition, at that level of humidity air movement will just dry out a plant quicker. Air movement is only required in places with very high humidity, or where you get the leaves very wet when watering. You have neither, so you don't need -any- extra air movement.

Don't water it on a schedule, you'll just get into trouble. Water it when it needs water. It will need water when the pot feels light (compare the weight of the pot just after it's watered and when it's dry.), or if the mix feels dry when you poke your finger into it.

I don't recommend bark in your environment, i think sphagnum moss would be better. With sphag it will hold water for longer and it will be easy to tell when it needs watering (by both weight of the pot and by touching the sphag)

[Orchid126]

As lais817 says, use a stick. Actually, what you need is a skewer, what they sell in the grocery store. Trim one down and tuck it into the pot. The next time you think the plant needs water, take the stick out and touch it to the back of your hand or your cheek. If it's dry or almost dry, water. If it's wet, don't water. How wet or dry the stick is before you water the plant will depend on what type of orchid it is. This is called the "skewer method" and I swear by it.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Regarding the frequency of watering...

Yes, it's true, there is no set "rule" as to how often you should water.

But I do encourage you to look at the link of the Phals growing in the wild again.

I guess I can walk you through why I put it up to begin with.

Look at where the plants are growing. It's on a tree trunk. Doesn't it look evenly moist?

Take a look at it again, pay attention to what's growing on the tree trunk with it. Do you see mosses and lichens? How much moss and lichen is on the tree trunk growing around the Phal? Ask yourself what this implies.

Notice also how the roots have a lot of exposure to air as well as moisture. To me this implies that if you grow it potted, the potting media should be loose and not compact to allow air to the roots so the plant can breathe.

Observe also how dark/bright it is, the plants are obviously growing in shade.

Pay attention to how the plants are positioned, doesn't this tell you that the plant has naturally evolved a way to allow rainwater to go away from the crown just by how it is positioned on the tree?

A photograph is worth a thousand words, but I think it's up to the observer to pay closer attention and really take in and process what's there.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Here's something I forgot to mention, you'd never figure this out unless you studied this.

The roots on Phalaenopsis, (or any orchid that has green roots), are fully capable of photosynthesis.

Maybe the info I gave you will get your wheels turning. The information I've given to you trumps any "rules" you might've come across or have been told.

[Undergrounder]

Originally Posted by King_of_orchid_growing:)

Regarding the frequency of watering...

Yes, it's true, there is no set "rule" as to how often you should water.

But I do encourage you to look at the link of the Phals growing in the wild again.

I guess I can walk you through why I put it up to begin with.

Look at where the plants are growing. It's on a tree trunk. Doesn't it look evenly moist?

Take a look at it again, pay attention to what's growing on the tree trunk with it. Do you see mosses and lichens? How much moss and lichen is on the tree trunk growing around the Phal? Ask yourself what this implies.

Notice also how the roots have a lot of exposure to air as well as moisture. To me this implies that if you grow it potted, the potting media should be loose and not compact to allow air to the roots so the plant can breathe.

Observe also how dark/bright it is, the plants are obviously growing in shade.

Pay attention to how the plants are positioned, doesn't this tell you that the plant has naturally evolved a way to allow rainwater to go away from the crown just by how it is positioned on the tree?

A photograph is worth a thousand words, but I think it's up to the observer to pay closer attention and really take in what's there.

I know you've made this point a few times and I think it's important to see how Phals are growing naturally but at the same time i don't think people should get stuck in thinking that's the only, or even the best way of growing them.

You don't need to replicate a Sumatran jungle environment to grow Phals, and you can even grow them better if you don't. Jungles are just one way they grow where a particular mix of environmental conditions meets to suit their particular requirements.

If you can meet their basic requirements in other environments (and you can), then they will grow just as well if not better. If you think of orchids in terms of their biological needs, you don't need to be restricted to just one environment that is expensive to recreate. That's why the Netherlands of all places is one of the world's largest Phalaenopsis producers.. It's not humid, or shady, warm or particularly jungley, but they understand the basic requirements of plants, and they meet them. That's all it's about. Low humidity? not a problem... just supply more water to the root zone. High light? no worries... just keep the plant cool, well watered and supply more nutrients.

Personally i grow them in a city basement, upright, in moderate light, low humidity, no air movement, with roots grown sopping wet and some completely submerged in water. It's about as far removed from a jungle as you can get, but it works just fine.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

I know you've made this point a few times and I think it's important to see how Phals are growing naturally but at the same time i don't think people should get stuck in thinking that's the only, or even the best way of growing them.

You don't need to replicate a Sumatran jungle environment to grow Phals, and you can even grow them better if you don't. Jungles are just one way they grow where a particular mix of environmental conditions meets to suit their particular requirements.

If you can meet their basic requirements in other environments (and you can), then they will grow just as well if not better. If you think of orchids in terms of their biological needs, you don't need to be restricted to just one environment that is expensive to recreate.

Personally i grow them in a city basement, upright in moderate light, low-medium humidity, no air movement, with roots grown sopping wet and some completely submerged in water. It's about as far removed from a jungle as you can get, but it works just as well.

My living room isn't exactly a Sumatran jungle, so I don't know where that reference comes from. But it does have some of the basic requirements to successfully grow Phalaenopsis. I couldn't grow them potted here, so I've mounted them.

There are many clues to a picture. I use them all the time to make predictions and adjust how I grow them in my conditions. I sometimes do mimic the natural conditions as best as I can, and it works very well. In fact, it worked better than all the information that I've heard prior to gaining more experience growing Phals.

I used to stick to the rule of watering an orchid once a week. I used to kill lots of Phals. I used to kill lots of other species of orchids and still do because of the lack of sufficient information in one sitting.

I did my homework. I worked hard. I looked for everything I could find. I researched the climate of the areas the orchids grew in so I'd be prepared to handle how to grow them. I tried different methods and applied what I've learned with those photos of how they grew in the wild. I've had remarkable success, and I've had massive failures.

All this, and this is just my hobby.

I put up those links to the photos of orchids growing in the wild to jog people's imaginations. To allow people to see once and for all, that's how they've grown for hundreds of years. Those pictures are to spark people's creativity to find their way of growing their orchids based off of what they see. The rest of what they don't see, can be gleaned off of whatever else is out there.

It's a puzzle.

I do recall when I was helping someone out with Medinella magnifica, that I had read an excerpt of how the person who discovered the plant had intentionally lied to everybody as to the whereabouts of the plant for his own financial and business agenda.

I feel fortunate to be able to see these photos from the comfort of my own room. This is so that I can learn how to properly grow an orchid that's been giving me a hard time no matter what cultural advice or information was given to me. It was easier for me to see the plant growing in the wild and make my own assertions and assumptions, then test them out.

It's not so easy for anyone to lie or get confused with the myriad of ways people grow their plants when the evidence is right in your face.

I think of what I see in the photographs of the orchids growing in the wild as the constant. The variables are the many growing methods out there. When there are too many variables to sort out, I go back to the constant. Then I'd have a point of reference instead of bouncing around all over the place.

Fair enough?

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

BTW, the longer I've been on the OB, the more I've realized it's just easier for me not to advise people to grow mounted or potted definitively.

It was just easier to suggest either mounting or potting and throw in some evidence of them growing in the wild, and letting them figure out what they want to do. If they want to do S&H that's fine too, but that's a whole different ball game that I'm not familiar with so I won't talk about it like some others could.

It's not like mounting a Phal doesn't work either. Potting a Phal can work too, but there're some basics to know as well.

I also push for a different method of growing, especially if they've tried one way and bombed. At least they're not doing the same thing they did to fail, all the while expecting successful outcomes. We all know the cliche...

"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity."

The one thing I can say is, to date I haven't had success with a Phal grown in full moss yet.