Yellow leaves on my phal

[AThoele]

Hi, all! I recently received my first orchids as a wedding gift. We would really like these orchids to survive, but it doesn't look good right now. The leaves have begun to turn yellow and a couple have fallen off. One of the leaves that is turning yellow began with a large black spot on the leaf.

I recently repotted the orchids and most of the roots were mushy. There were only a few remaining roots that hadn't yet begun to rot. I removed the rotting roots, but I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do to nurse the orchids back to health and do my best to help them survive.

They were in moss when I moved them on Saturday and they're currently in bark. Is this better than the moss? Is there anything in particular I need to do while I'm repotting?


I've attached a few pictures, but since taking these pictures yesterday I've cut off the flower spike and the one completely yellow leaf has fallen off.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[tuvoc]

Hi, and welcome aboard. First, you have two plants there, and I wouldn't keep them in the same pot. Bark is the way to go, but watch it, dont let it get too dry for these guys, untill they recover. Keep them in a warm place, out of direct sun, and with as much humidity as you can provide, with fairly good air movement. The leaves that are left look fair, so, with some patience, you just might save them. Good luck, and keep us posted.

Kim

[nutgirl]

Congratulations on your wedding!

The yellow leaves are probably a response to the rotted roots, They do eventually drop off. The plant is trying to maintain itself until new roots grow. It looks like you have a new leaf starting on one of the plants, that's good.

Keep an eye out for more black spots. They are not normal.

Changing to bark is a good start. How much root material do you think is still good? I would remove all flower spikes, if you haven't, so the plant can concentrate on recovery.

When orchids are struggling they like higher humidity but be carefull with your watering if the bark is too wet they will continue rotting. Keep it damp not moist or wet.

Hope for the best!

Maureen

[RosieC]

Congratulations on your marriage

I agree with what's been said above. You did the right thing to remove the mushy roots and most likely the yellowing of the leaves is because of the lack of roots.

The choice of medium varies depending on where you are and what your watering habits are. I use bark and favour it but as I said some people do better with moss.

If you have had rotted roots with moss then bark is a good way to go so I think you have made the right move there.

Are there any holes in the bottom of that pot you have it in? If not then I strongly recomend changing the pot to one which has holes in the bottom.

It is VERY difficult to get the watering of a Phal right if there are no holes in the pot. Phals do not like to stand in water and no holes means when you water there is a good chance you leave it with water in the bottom. If you are careful and don't water much to avoid that then you are likely to underwater.

With holes in the bottom you can water thoroughly (as you need to do) but then let the water drain out so you are sure it's not standing in any.

While you are at it use a clear pot. This lets you see if the bark is dry all the way to the bottom. You should let it dry right to the bottom between each watering.

If you can't get a clear pot then use a wooden skewer pushed in to the bark. Leave it in all the time and if you pull it out and it's still damp then don't water yet.

Good luck and I hope it recoveres for you.

[AThoele]

Thanks, everyone, for the welcome, congratulations, and advice. I have a few more questions.

How much humidity should I be shooting for? I live in Florida so the max humidity lately has been between 70 and 80%. Sometimes it's as low as 50%. Is that humid enough or should I keep them inside and get a humidifier?

Also, nutgirl, there wasn't much root matter left after I removed the rotted roots on either of the plants. There are a couple of short roots left that still looked good. I did remove the flower spikes, so I'm glad to hear that that was the right move.

The pot in the photo is just a decorative pot. It does have holes in the bottom, but the phals are actually in a clear plastic pot with a bunch of holes in the bottom, propped up on some rocks. That should provide adequate drainage, right?

If the other leaves fall off should I continue to care for them or will that mean that they are officially dead? I ask because the remaining leaves are starting to look a little yellow around the base. I do see the new leaf that nutgirl mentioned though, so maybe that's a good sign...

[nutgirl]

I have found Phals to be pretty adaptable when it comes to humidity. My climate is hot and dry in the summer and they don't seem to mind 30-50%. That being said, mine have good established root systems. So they have more humidity around their root zone. I would think yours would be thrilled with Florida weather. There are some good posts about humidity on the orchid board.

I agree with Tuvoc, if those are two separate plants they would be better in separate pots.

If the leaves fall off they still might be just "mostly dead", don't give up unless the whole thing is rotted. There are several methods of dealing with them. Look up sphag n bag and water culture. Hopefully it won't reach this stage.

Maureen

[RosieC]

If there is a clear pot inside the decorative one that should be fine. As long as it can't sit in water that should be good.

I don't know about humidity, never measured it here and not sure what it should be if I did.

There is a technique called Sphag-n-Bag which can be used on Phals which have lost ALL their roots. My experience is that if you have even a couple it is better to pot it back up.

http://www.firstrays.com/sphagnbag.htm

Another thought I have just had is the problem of 'over-potting'. Phals like to be in a pot only just big enough for the roots and when one has suffered root loss there can be a problem that there is a mass of bark with no roots which can easily 'sour'.

I overcame this with one of mine which had lost most of the roots by packing out the bottom of the pot in some way. Stones/pebbles may be a good way, I've used packing peanuts and some perlite. But it would be good if you can reduce the amount of bark so that the bark you have dries quickly enough. I try and aim for it drying completely in arround 5-7 days. Slower than that seemed to cause me problems.

I've seen threads here on OB which talk about still caring for a leafless Phal and I think they have been known to recover. I'm not sure myself, never tried if they've got that far.

[nutgirl]

Rosie is right. The nonorganic material in the bottom of the pot has worked for me too as well as the 5-7 day drying time.

Keep in mind, nursing leafless and rootless orchids back to health is a challenge and a great learning experience but you will be flowerless for some time (maybe years?) as they are slow growers.

Maureen

[RosieC]

Maureen is right, it is likely to be a slow process.

My one which lost most roots is very slowly recovering. But it has been sick for about a year now with no flowers and I don't expect it to be well enough to flower for at least another year if not longer.

That's not to say it doesn't try ocasionally to grow a flower spike, but as it's not well enough to maintain it's own leaves properly yet I remove the spike before they get very big. I would rather let the plant concentrate on new roots and leaves than on flowering.

[AThoele]

Thanks for all your help! I repotted the plants separately. There hasn't been any more yellowing in the past couple of days, so I'm taking that as a good sign. When I moved the plants out of the previous pot, the remaining roots were much drier and were nice and green. I didn't see any new roots sprouting, but I figure it's probably too early for that.

I read on another thread about using fertilizer and/or cinnamon on the roots to prevent further rot. Should I have done that to these roots?

I have another, somewhat, random question. Why are orchids typically potted with a different plant in the same pot? The ones I'm trying to nurse back to health were potted with ivy and one that I bought last weekend was potted with a gorgeous fern. Is there some purpose for this? Are the orchids better off without the other plants in thier pots?

Thanks, again, for everything!