SAVE THE ORCHIDS!!

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by johnblagg

....go save a colony of wild chids way cool

See! There's a very good idea!

Not many newbies know this, but here in the good old US of A, we have lots of native orchids. They're no Phalaenopsis, but they're beautiful in their own right.

For example...

Did you know that Pogonia ophioglossoides is native to the US in places like Missouri and North Carolina to name a few places in it's range? So are Epipactis gigantea (I've actually seen a small wild colony of these in Santa Barbara, CA). We also have plants like Cypripedium californicum and Cyp kentuckiense. Then there's Calypso bulbosa. Spiranthes cernua is also native to the US. Tipularia discolor. Galearis spectabilis. Aplectrum hyemale. The list goes on...

Depending on where you are in the states, you can look for these during a hike and take photos of them.

There are also conservation groups involved in the protection of our native US orchids.

Check those out.

Some of these species are even for sale in the orchid hobby trade.

Some are not easy to grow for a beginner, but there are a few that are very growable.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by quiltergal

Folks this really is a very simple issue of supply and demand. Basic economics. If you want the mistreatment of billions of cloned orchids to stop......then reduce the demand for them by NOT buying them.

Quiltergal, I'm not directing this at you but at the premise of the thread which, after 6 months, I still think is a bit absurd. Maybe I'm a bit too simple for this topic and maybe I need to get in touch with my inner Buddha but I just don't get moral outrage behind the so called mistreatment of cultivated orchids, which seems to be at the core of the original post. Sure it's a waste of resources but it's not exactly the epitome of poor stock management.

Two good points tha have been raised: If you want to save orchids, put your effort into supporting those people conserving wild populations. If you want to save the orchid industry, buy direct from the orchid nurseries. (and you don't have to pay hundreds of dollars for them )

[quiltergal]

Andrew...I totally agree. "Mistreated" was mostly tongue in cheek.

The point is put your money to better use elsewhere. The BB stores and the mass producers only care about one thing, their bottom line. Buying a half dead orchid from them isn't going to send them reeling with remorse. They're going to crank out a bazillion more as fast as they can, cause they just made $10 bucks off you. If you want to purchase orchids and feel righteous about it, then spend your money at well respected greenhouse.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by Andrew

...but at the premise of the thread which, after 6 months, I still think is a bit absurd.

I didn't realize this thread was started 6 months ago when I posted. It just showed up as a new post since yesterday.

Oh well...

It may be absurd to answer an old thread, but I guess it wasn't a complete waste of time either.

Even if siannevo may have moved on from the topic, this discussion may offer others insight on this topic should they be thinking the same thing.

Originally Posted by Andrew

...maybe I need to get in touch with my inner Buddha but I just don't get moral outrage behind the so called mistreatment of cultivated orchids, which seems to be at the core of the original post.

I believe it's more about an emotional response to an ethically questionable industry practice that shows sentiment towards another living being that has significance to the person, coupled with the nurturing aspect of humanity rather than "moral outrage" or "wanting to be one with the universe". If it were crabgrass, not a lot of people would give a blink, morals or no morals.

[SOS]

Everything relevant has been said, so forgive me if this is reiteration, but I have some questions.

Is it any less offensive when someone throws out their Poinsettia?

What would you do if you rescued 15 orchids a month for a year and ran out of space for your preferred plants and you couldnt give them away?

[Rbeitle]

I must say I totally agree with king. Species orchids should be first on the priority list. I come from a reptile background and even mentioning hybrids sparks visious remarks. Once a species goes extinct it is gone but if you lose a certain hybrid it can be recreated by combining the parental species again. I am new to this hobby but aren't most of the mass produced hybrids a product of meristemming or mericlonning. In other words all you need is the original and you have a copy of the thousands that are thrown away. I know it is more complicated than that but that is the basic idea. My collection is in my opinion great for a beginner but it consists mainly of hybrids. I have yet to have you knowledgable forum members validate some of my suspected species orchids. The ones that are considered species I will keep and the hybrids I will get rid of. I will NOT be throwing them in the garbage, rest assured. Eventually I want my entire collection to be species only. Sorry for the long ramble but I feal very strongly about the importance of species orchids.

[camille1585]

I don't understand the 'no hybrids' thing. I agree, don't get those mass produced NOIDs. But there are great local/small sized orchid breeders that create some wonderful (and named) hybrids!

And how is buying only species supposed to save them? It's not going to put them back in the wild.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I don't understand the 'no hybrids' thing. I agree, don't get those mass produced NOIDs. But there are great local/small sized orchid breeders that create some wonderful (and named) hybrids!

And how is buying only species supposed to save them? It's not going to put them back in the wild.

I agree on your many points.

There are some beautiful hybrids.

Buying only species is only one way saving them can be done. But there is a catch...

Enough people in the world have to have the intent of breeding them or reproducing them, not just buy them and grow them for themselves. Then and only then can they be saved.

There may be evidence that suggests it can be done! I don't know to what degree this is true or what the details are, but somewhere I've heard about the mediterranean tortoises having a large population boom because of captive propagation by hobbyists.

Another great example we see now is in domesticated dogs and cats.

Again, enough people must have the intent on not just growing them and keeping them to themselves, they must have the intent to breed them and spread them around!

What makes this problematic is that proper and detailed habitat information makes this feat very time consuming and very difficult!

Then there's not every one thinks the same way about the hobby.

This is also the reason why I have problems with certain CITES regulations. They seem to not be able to take this into account.

[harrywitmore]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I don't understand the 'no hybrids' thing. I agree, don't get those mass produced NOIDs. But there are great local/small sized orchid breeders that create some wonderful (and named) hybrids!

And how is buying only species supposed to save them? It's not going to put them back in the wild.

I think if you are into orchids for showy flowers then hybrids are ok. The only reason I have any is to have some flowers in the house from time to time. They may as well be cut flowers so I would not be likely to 'rescue' any either.

I don't think we can say whether growing and breeding species will one day allow them to be placed back in nature but for sure growing hybrids will not.

[Hedge]

I think this whole thread is symptomatic of many hobby and fashions phases - you start off seeing orchids in the garden centre or the supermarket and you like them. You buy one or three or five. Soon your friends are buying them and giving them as gifts.Then you start to learn about them and discover that there are hundreds being destroyed on garbage heaps, You are outraged about this and start rescuing them. Then you realize that they can't recover or can't be safely mixed with healthy orchids but by then it's too late cos they're either dead, limping or have infected your other plants. So then you think seriously about the money you've invested so far and you either go the whole hog and support the proper green houses and nurseries and the conservation efforts or you throw in the towel and move onto the next craze....does anyone remember cacti, African violets, miniature roses????

I am at the seriously thinking phase and I think I'm going to opt for species, proper names hybrids and conservation, because I have the time to do it --- but nothing is as easy as popping an orchid in the cart at the checkout, and that's why there is a massive industry producing these things.

You have to remember that these phases apply to all sorts of hobbies - an easy in to get you hooked. A healthy Phalaenopsis clone is a reliable relatively easy houseplant that lasts a lot longer than a bunch of cut flowers (who'd like to consider that garbage heap???)and may lead to one becoming a serious hobbyist like King