Question for CA Central Coast/SF Bay Area Residents - Orchid Board

PleuroPal · #1 03-08-2009, 03:56 PM

Does anybody have any epidendrum secundum or ibaguense growing outside year round up here? How low can they go temperature-wise and will they survive the winters in our environment?

Additionally, what species do you know of that do thrive outdoors in our area? I know cymbidiums do fine, as well as blettilla striata, and I also have a dendrobium speciosa curvicaule that has already lived through one winter with no ill effects. (Still waiting for it to spike though.)

Thanks,
Ray

Weebl · #2 03-08-2009, 05:11 PM

There is a section on the OB forums called Outdoor Gardening which may help, and epiphyte78 started a thread Outdoor Epiphytic Orchids for Temperate/Mediterranean Climates. We would appreciate it if you added to this list with what you grow outdoors.

I grow Epidendrum radicans outdoors year round and it's done well as long as it's over some sort of overhang, whether it's a tree or a patio cover; something to insulate slightly when night temps dip below 32 degrees.

Seeing Epidendrum secundum grows up to 3200m elevation though, it should have no problem with temps down to 30 degrees. Try to keep potting mediums fairly dry when it gets this cold, as orchids other than cymbidiums are much more sensitive to wet and cold feet.

A neighbor of my grandmothers down in Ventura, CA has Epidendrum ibaguense growing in full sun and it's 5' high and 4' across and covered in blooms year round. Needless to say it's not complaining being outdoor year round, despite occasional frost.

orchidophile168 · #3 03-11-2009, 05:58 PM

Hi,

Just ran across your post and found it interesting. I've been growing orchids outside year round in the SF Bay Area for a few years now, and I know plenty of people that have been growing outside year round for a long time.

The one thing you have to remember about growing in the Bay Area is that there are so many different micro-climates in the Bay Area. So what I can grow well may not grow well for you depending on where you live. With that said, there are plenty of great orchid species and hybrids that do well here.

Generally, if you can grow cymbidiums well, you might want to try Laelia anceps (all varieties), Dendrobiums that need a distinct deasonal change or are from Australia and Papua New Guinea (ie. Den. nobile, Den. thyrsiflorum, Den. speciosum, Den. dicheaiodes, etc.), Masdevallias, Pleurothallids (esp. Pleuro. Restrepiodes - grows like weeds around the Bay Area), and Odontoglossums (species and hybrids). These are just a few to lists that are easy to take care of and will survive our winters. I have also found that these do well for others that live in the Bay Area also.

Just remember that to reserach your orchid before buying and make sure you can take care of it. The saddest thing about an orchid is a dead orchid.

Hope this helps! Happy growing!!!

orchidophile168 · #4 03-11-2009, 06:03 PM

O... just remembered.

You might also want to check with Santa Barbara Orchid Estate (Santa Barbara Orchid Estate Home Page). They have a list of orchids that are temperature tolerant in CA. That is also a nother place to check for more info. Andy's Orchids is also another site to check (Andy's Orchids - Orchid Species - Orchids - Species Specialist - Orchids on a stick).

Lastly, your local orchid society is full of people that grow orchids outside and thay can acutally give you a lot more practical advice than anything on the web and even some nurseries. So check in with you local society.

Hope that helps.

PleuroPal · #5 03-11-2009, 06:44 PM

Sure that helps - especially the part about the Masdevallias and Pleurothallids. I currently do have growing outside a cymbidium, a Dendrobium speciosum, and some Bletilla striatas. I've recently moved outside my Laelia anceps and my Laelia gouldianna, as well as my Sedirea japonica and my Dracula Houtteana (shaded).
You also couldn't be more correct about the micro-climes in the Bay Area. I live in a little strip along the west side of Hwy 101 between Gilroy and Prunedale that can be 10 to 20 degrees cooler and much foggier than the surrounding area in a 2 mile direction either north or south of me. The moisture from Monterey Bay (which is about 10 miles from me) comes right up the Pajaro River Valley in a very well-defined channel. Pretty amazing actually and it's a real blessing in the summer.
Thanks for the references. Although I am addicted to Andy's Orchids website (I check their specials every day with my first sip of coffee), I should take more advantage of my direct hotline to them through Harry, whom I've known for 10 plus years - long before I ever got bitten by the orchid bug. I just always feel guilty calling him up to ask about this or that orchid issue, even though I know he doesn't mind a bit.
Last week, I went ahead and took the plunge with some of my Epi. ibaguense and buried a couple of clay pots in the ground next to a little yucca tree outside. I made sure to dig the holes extra deep and filled the extra room with lava rock in order to make sure they drain well. Since it got down close to freezing the last couple of nights, I'm wondering if I should have held off another week or so.

orchidophile168 · #6 03-12-2009, 03:10 AM

I have recently got a couple masdevallias and pleurothallids, and I love them. The only problem/trouble I foresee in them is the watering aspect because they do like a lot of water. Aside from that thaty are really wonderful and charming.

Just another note on the Masds and Plueros. Make sure you get ones that are appropriate for your climate because there are some that require warmer temps, that may not do too well with our winters outside.

Andy's Orchids is a very helpful place, and if you know Harry, I saw give him a call if you have any questions. He would probably know more about certain orchids than I would, or have a different opinion on them (my perspective is from my own experience with my plants).

As for the Epis. I don't see any unforeseen problem with the way you set them up. They are rather hardy plants, and I've seen them in the ground without any special prep. I've also seen them grow in full sun year round and full shade year round. They are truly hardy plants, and a great beginner orchid for beginners in CA. You almost can't go wrong with them.

If the Epis have acclimated to the outside weather (if they were grown outside for a while, esp during the winter) they should be ok. They may be shocked if you moved them from inside the house immediately outside, but they should bounce back in a couple months. Just keep your eye on them, they should be fine.

PleuroPal · #7 03-12-2009, 10:53 AM

As for my masdies and pleuros, they are all indoors at this point. Masd. atropurpurea, Masd. decumana hybrid, Pleurothallis palliolata, and Pluerothallis leptifolia. There's also a Bulbophylum inunctum, and Bulbophyllum plumatum, and a Scaphosepalum anchoriferum that require fairly low light, coolish temps, and lots of water. I'll need to do more checking to find out which of these might be ok outside and for which time of year.

Yeah, epis are pretty bulletproof. These were the first orchids ever given to me, along with the Bletilla striata. I was worried about the shock factor from going straight from the house to outside when the temps were still getting so low. They've always done well in terms of growth and root production - just no flowers. I'm thinking the change to outdoors is what they've been missing. I had my Epi. secundum outside this winter and it put out a spike for the first time which then blasted, so I got scared and pulled it back indoors. I'll take it back out in another week or two when I know we're past frosting at night.

orchidophile168 · #8 03-12-2009, 02:02 PM

It sounds like the Epis should be fine. Maybe it just needed more light to bloom, which isn't too unusual.

Right now, all my Masds. are at the office becuase they are in bloom now. I find that they do very well outside for me and acutally bloom better. I just need to remember to turn the pot every now and then so I get even flowers all the way around and not lopsided flowering. My only reservation lately about putting my plants on the porch, at least the more special species, are because of orchid poachers. I've recently lost a Masdevallia pachyura and some cymbidiums to theft.

Sounds like you have an extensive collection going! Keep up the work!

PleuroPal · #9 03-12-2009, 09:00 PM

Orchid poachers? Wow, that sucks. In some parts of the world people get shot for that sort of thing! Thanks for the tips and the encouragement. I've been into the orchid thing for about 5 or 6 years now, but I'm always trying to learn more and make my babies happier. I'm up to 23 species and about the same number of hybrids now. My GF has forbidden me to buy any more, but I still receive them as gifts every now and then. I'm like, "Oh no, look honey, somebody gave me another orchid! Whatever am I going to do?" lol

orchidophile168 · #10 03-12-2009, 11:12 PM

HAHAHA!!! I basically in the same situation. Everyone around me is like "NO MORE!!!!!" "You have no more room." But then again, they haven't been biten by the orchid bug.

Sometimes it helps when i show them the plant and then a picture of it's flowers, or if I mention that I got it at the orchid society raffle table for $2-3. Then people usually go... "O... that's it. How cute!!!"

I'm really into species right now too, especially Maxillarias and Asian species. I've found that a lot of species from Papua New Guinea and Asia do very well outside for me, but like I said double check your conditions.

I'm glad there's another species nut on here! Happy Growing. Keep us posted with pics and news.