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  #1  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:27 AM
Selyne Selyne is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria B.C
Age: 36
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Newbie trying to save Phal ... Female
Unhappy Newbie trying to save Phal ...

Ok so first off tragicly iv been trying to save my two phals for the last month or so .... and i manage to seriously hurt them...
I came to the conclusion that i had overwatterd them. But even when i left them alone and stop wattering them.. they seemed to get worst. This past week iv been all over the net looking up stuff, and aquired some very usefull information. Most from this site. I've been arround to flower shops and all they told me was to leave it alone. I KNEW , that i coulndt just leave it and watch it wither away.
Finaly i concluded that they had some serious root and crown rot. I decided to repot. My first phal had some serious root damage. I cut off all the dead roots and now im left with 3, but these arnt ground roots, these are the ones that are out in the open. I tried to remove as much black stuff as posible but there is still some that i cant quite take off because the 3 roots are there .
I ended up doing the Shpag and bag.
I first soak in fertalized water for 10 minutes or so. I soaked the leaves and pat them dry. I put it in a ziplock bag with damp moss making sure its not touching.
I went a bought peroxide today 3% and soak my phal again. I dusted some cinamon on it and stuff.
Over all, the leaves look great, nice drak green. HOWEVER one leaf on the left side, the only leaf on that side had this Splotch like spot. Its not spreadng but it looks weird. It looks like a bruise of some sort. I didnt want to cut it off because then in would unbalance the plant.....
Sadly my other phal died, when i went to repot it it fell apart , i hardly touched it.. there was no crown to it...
I was soooo upset i cried... My first phal who im trying to save my Bf bought me on an annaversery, the Second valentines day.... so this phal really means allot to me. It had green and pink flowers that i have never seen on an orchid before.. i really hope what im doing is right... it doesnt seem to be doing worst but i just started this bag thing .... I'm sure what do now but just keep on eye on it and blow in the bag once a day.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:41 AM
flhiker flhiker is offline
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Hi Selyne and welcome to the board. Pictures would help a lot. But I have had more trouble with Phals because of water then anything else. If water sits in the crown to long it with cause crown rot and in most cases it is terminal. At least in my cases. As so if the roots don't dry out between watering you can drown the plant. I think the best thing you can do is, repot in fresh medium and water a couple times a week. It will probably rot in the sphag and bag.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2009, 01:06 AM
Selyne Selyne is offline
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hmm im not sure how to put pictures on here :S
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2009, 01:36 AM
Selyne Selyne is offline
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Newbie trying to save Phal ... Female
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I have pcitures in my album , i havnt yet figured out how to put picture on here.

Couple questions, what kind of medium should i use , im been using the moss, and thats what my phal had when i first got her.
And how much water should i give it ??

thanx !!!
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:11 AM
Amanda L Amanda L is offline
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Hi Selyne, Welcome to the Orchid Board!! I personally don't like moss for potting medium, I tend to kill the roots with it. I use a mixture of medium fir bark and medium charcoal, you may be able to find these things at a local nursery, I have to buy online. If you choose to use the bark mix (fir bark), make sure you soak it overnight, so that it will retain moisture better. I also use clear plastic pots, so I can see what the roots look like, I know if they are white, I need to water, also if there is a problem starting. I hope you have success with getting your baby to come back to life. I have a Phal that had some crown rot, I took the plant out of the potting mix and left it bare root, I misted it 2 times everyday, hoping for a keiki. I finally got my keiki and my plant will live on. So even if the plant doesn't make it, you may be able to get a whole other plant from it and a great learning experience. This board has been a great asset to my growing and my growing collection of plants, EVERYONE here is an enabler. Good luck and again, WELCOME to the Orchid Board.

Last edited by Amanda L; 02-02-2009 at 02:13 AM..
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:48 AM
Selyne Selyne is offline
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Newbie trying to save Phal ... Female
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thanx Amanda for the advice and warm welcoming !
I dont know if i could get a keiki off mine, it doesnt have a spike... but i will for sure go and get some bark, i fine that the moss doesnt work too well either i never know if its dry enough to watter.. which is why i am in this situation :P
Do you think i should leave the bruised spotted leaf or cut it ??
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:46 AM
Selyne Selyne is offline
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Oh! i forgot to ask !! how do i mist it ?? just at the roots or on the leaves ??
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2009, 04:09 AM
l.ania l.ania is offline
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As for me, I want to tell you not to worry so much 3 weeks ago I rescued a Phal from my mom- when I took it out from the pot, I realised that all roots are rotten. I cut them off, which made that Phal have no roots. I put it in airy bark, watering only a little... and now it looks like this- 4 new roots and new leaf is coming :
Attached Thumbnails
Newbie trying to save Phal ...-pict0159-jpg   Newbie trying to save Phal ...-pict0160-jpg   Newbie trying to save Phal ...-pict0161-jpg  
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:12 AM
flhiker flhiker is offline
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Here is some help posting pictures
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...chidboard.html
As far as misting goes you can just mist the whole plant but do not let water sit in the crown.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2009, 03:26 PM
beanluc beanluc is offline
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Hi, Selyne,

So it really sounds like the original problems were caused by both over-watering (you found rotted roots) and by water sitting in the crown or in leaf/stem crotches (this is what causes crown rot).

I really hope the remaining plant recovers for you! If it does, or if you get more in the future, here's how to care for them and avoid those 2 very common problems:

Crown rot: (pretty deadly, rapidly progressing, very difficult to recover from)
First, be really careful not to get water in the crown or in leaf/stem crotches at all. For this reason, I wouldn't generally mist or spray Phals, which seem to be one of the more susceptible orchid types. Especially not on a routine basis with plain water. If it needed a shot of foliar feeding or some other kind of treatment (pests, maybe?), then that would be another thing. Even then, avoid misting/spraying at any time other than the early morning, so that it has time to evaporate/dry off before the cold and dark of the night, which is how the micro-organisms that cause the rot like to live.
But, sometimes you have to do it, or sometimes you might have to really soak a plant, and that could get water in those tight spots, or sometimes you accidentally get it in there. If it happens, you can take a straw and point it into the cavities and blow the water out. Or, I use a compressed air can, the same kind you can buy for cleaning computers. I just am careful to "puff" the air, rather than "hose" it with a long blast, because the air that comes out can get very cold, the longer it streams out. You can actually frost a plant with it if you just shoot a long blast at a spot. On the other hand this is really effective, even more than a straw, unless you can get a really skinny one and blow really hard.
Other people use just their lips to blow (I hear you can get water in your face this way), or use Q-tips or the corner of a folded paper towel to blot it out, or (I think I heard) apply alcohol and then inverting the plant to pour the water out of there, like swimmers do to get water out of their ears.
If one is misting/spraying because of a desire to provide elevated humidity, then a way to do this which doesn't deposit liquid water on the plant (which can fill those cavities) is to use nice big humidity trays filled with pebbles/gravel and water. Here's a post about that - it can be done very cheaply and without hogging up an awful lot of space, if you use square ones rather than round ones.

Over-watering: (causes root rot, also dangerous, progresses more slowly, usually recoverable if caught early enough) The culprit here isn't too much water, it's too frequent watering. The roots like to get good and dry between waterings. At the same time, the plant needs to respire a certain amount of water every day, so, underwatering also is a risk. Lucky for us, the plant can store water in its thick leaves! So the solution is to let it drink up as much as it wants to absorb, when you water it. Immersing the pot in a bucket for 15-30 minutes accomplishes this. Then, it has enough stored water that it can go much longer between waterings than if all you do is wet the roots and immediately let it drain out of the pot.
And, again, humidity trays also help for this condition too, by letting the plant's own stored water last even longer between waterings.
When immersing, be careful not to let the water be so deep that it reaches and fills the leaf crotches or (shudder) the crown. If it happens, use one of the methods above to get that water out!
When I water this way, I typically notice the leaves or pseudobulbs (on other kinds of orchids, not Phals) start to droop and maybe even wrinkle a little before it's really ready for another watering. A few of hours after the bucket soak, the leaves/bulbs are visibly plumper and smoother again. If they still look shrunken, then I can repeat watering the next day. But never more than 2 days in a row. This repeat watering is only very rarely necessary anyway.
So, none of us can specifically recommend to you "how often" to water, because all of us have different conditions in our homes and geographic locations, and probably not exactly the same orchids either. But the above visible clues could help you to determine for yourself what your plants need and when they need it.

Good luck, please don't let this set-back/disappointment kill your enthusiam for orchids! We've all experienced this and learned from it, and gone on to become more successful and happy orchid caregivers!

BL
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