Phal with very dead roots - Orchid Board

pbridges · #1 11-12-2008, 12:57 PM

I'm new to orchids, and a friend gave me a Phal for my birthday. All was well until about a month ago, it had grown new leaves, and I put it in a east facing window.
I guess the room was too cold, cause the bottom leaves turned yellow and fell off.

So, I moved it somewhere a little warmer, and it still lost leaves. Finally repotted it yesterday - most of the roots were dead. I cut them back, applied cinnamon, replaced the spaghnum moss with bark (the only orchid soil I could find locally) and now I'm concerned.

How many roots can you cut off before the entire plant dies? I've put it in a warmish room (69-70 degrees) and plan to leave it alone to see how it does.

camille1585 · #2 11-12-2008, 01:14 PM

Hi pbridges,welcome to Orchid Board!!

Be careful with the cinnamon on the roots. While it does cure rot, I have read that applying cinnamon on healthy roots is harmful to them. If you put a lot, you might want to get some off.
How many roots are left on the plant? Warmth is good, but the main issue with phals that have few roots is humidity. Low humidity makes the plant evaporate more water, and the intake by the few roots might not cover the loss through the leaves. What you can do is place a clear plastic bag over the plant, like a tent. That will help maintain higher humidity.

As a side note, where in northern VA are you from? Before moving to France I lived in Reston VA

priz_m · #3 11-12-2008, 02:20 PM

Hello pbridges good to have you join the OB!

Technically you could cut off all of the roots, its what comes after that is important.

A phal can be stabilized with 3-4 inches of roots total (3 little one inch ones, 2 that are 2 inches each, etc), as long as you had that going, it has a good chance of making a comeback.

Most of the phals are sold with sphag as a medium that is too compact and retains too much moisture for too long, the switch to bark will help the remaining roots get more air circulation.

Camille is right, I completely agree, the best thing to do for the phal is to withdraw watering for a couple weeks and place it in a shady warm spot with the plastic bag over it and hope for the best, as long as its humid and warm enough it should develop new roots in about a month.

Pictures tell a thousand words and helps us give more accurate advice, so don't be shy to upload any if you have them

Keep us posted, best of luck!

pbridges · #4 11-13-2008, 07:21 PM

Thanks for your advice, Camille - I will try putting it in a plastic bag and hope for the best. I hope to find that this is not a lost cause.

And I presently live near Warrenton, VA. Used to live in Herndon...

pbridges · #5 11-13-2008, 07:24 PM

I'm not sure how many roots I ended up leaving - most of them were gone, so I hope there's enough of them to continue growing new ones. Thank you for your expertise. I will try to take some pics and upload them. I'm off to cover the plant with the bag now - thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens.

Jerry Delaney · #6 11-13-2008, 11:56 PM

Welcome to the OB pbridges. You will find many growers here willing to pass along information and help. The information already given is by far the most popular and many growers use the "bag" treatment to rescue plants with poor or no roots. While I envy them, I just never could quite get the knack of doing it successfully and usually wind up rotting the plant more. I am attaching a couple of pictures of a plant with no viable roots showing what I do to try and salvage plants. I use the plastic twist ties to make an artificial root system and then pot it in my media of choice depending upon the type of orchid. While it is most likely a second or third best choice, it's one that works for me many (but certainly not always) times. Good luck with your Phal!

dianecty · #7 11-18-2008, 09:16 PM

Jerry, what is the purpose of the plastic ties? They can't absorb water or bring it back to the plant. I'm puzzled. Thanks!

Diane

quiltergal · #8 11-18-2008, 10:54 PM

The twist ties anchor the plant in the medium so it doesn't just fall out of the pot. Nifty idea Jerry. I like it. I've not had great success with Sphag N Bag either. Mine usually end up a slimy rotting mass. However, Camille's idea of just tenting a bag over the plant and pot has really helped some of my nearly rootless ones. I put a few stakes in the pot and tent the plastic bag over the stakes. The stakes support the bag so the plant doesn't have to. The bag is open at the bottom so air exchange occurs. Just keep an eye out for mold.

WhiteRabbit · #9 11-18-2008, 10:59 PM

I have had some success getting roots going by taking an old 2 gallon hex fish tank (taller than it is wide) putting a layer of damp peat on the bottom, and a layer of pebbles on that and placing the plant inside. covering with the top from the fish tank which allows some fresh air in but doesn't let too much moisture escape.

In the first instance plant was a noid oncidium - placed pot and all in the tank put it where there was some good light, but not direct light and left it for a couple months just making sure it didn't dry out. A couple of months later I could see new root growth so slowly allowed more fresh air into the tank. then finally took the plant out.

I guess this is the same concept as the plastic bag tent pretty much lol

In the second instance another plant still after a few months was not growing roots! So after reading on the board about people having success growing roots using live sphag I decided to try that. Plant is still in the fish tank sitting on a shady windowsill. Been two weeks with some live sphag ( a little in bottom of pot, and a little draped over base of plant) and we have new root growth!

Let us know how your plant does!

priz_m · #10 11-19-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Delaney

Welcome to the OB pbridges. You will find many growers here willing to pass along information and help. The information already given is by far the most popular and many growers use the "bag" treatment to rescue plants with poor or no roots. While I envy them, I just never could quite get the knack of doing it successfully and usually wind up rotting the plant more. I am attaching a couple of pictures of a plant with no viable roots showing what I do to try and salvage plants. I use the plastic twist ties to make an artificial root system and then pot it in my media of choice depending upon the type of orchid. While it is most likely a second or third best choice, it's one that works for me many (but certainly not always) times. Good luck with your Phal!

Wow Jerry that is an excellent idea