Phal with very dead roots

[pbridges]

I'm new to orchids, and a friend gave me a Phal for my birthday. All was well until about a month ago, it had grown new leaves, and I put it in a east facing window.
I guess the room was too cold, cause the bottom leaves turned yellow and fell off.

So, I moved it somewhere a little warmer, and it still lost leaves. Finally repotted it yesterday - most of the roots were dead. I cut them back, applied cinnamon, replaced the spaghnum moss with bark (the only orchid soil I could find locally) and now I'm concerned.

How many roots can you cut off before the entire plant dies? I've put it in a warmish room (69-70 degrees) and plan to leave it alone to see how it does.

[camille1585]

Hi pbridges,welcome to Orchid Board!!

Be careful with the cinnamon on the roots. While it does cure rot, I have read that applying cinnamon on healthy roots is harmful to them. If you put a lot, you might want to get some off.
How many roots are left on the plant? Warmth is good, but the main issue with phals that have few roots is humidity. Low humidity makes the plant evaporate more water, and the intake by the few roots might not cover the loss through the leaves. What you can do is place a clear plastic bag over the plant, like a tent. That will help maintain higher humidity.

As a side note, where in northern VA are you from? Before moving to France I lived in Reston VA

[pbridges]

Thanks for your advice, Camille - I will try putting it in a plastic bag and hope for the best. I hope to find that this is not a lost cause.

And I presently live near Warrenton, VA. Used to live in Herndon...

[priz_m]

Hello pbridges good to have you join the OB!

Technically you could cut off all of the roots, its what comes after that is important.

A phal can be stabilized with 3-4 inches of roots total (3 little one inch ones, 2 that are 2 inches each, etc), as long as you had that going, it has a good chance of making a comeback.

Most of the phals are sold with sphag as a medium that is too compact and retains too much moisture for too long, the switch to bark will help the remaining roots get more air circulation.

Camille is right, I completely agree, the best thing to do for the phal is to withdraw watering for a couple weeks and place it in a shady warm spot with the plastic bag over it and hope for the best, as long as its humid and warm enough it should develop new roots in about a month.

Pictures tell a thousand words and helps us give more accurate advice, so don't be shy to upload any if you have them

Keep us posted, best of luck!

[pbridges]

I'm not sure how many roots I ended up leaving - most of them were gone, so I hope there's enough of them to continue growing new ones. Thank you for your expertise. I will try to take some pics and upload them. I'm off to cover the plant with the bag now - thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens.

[Jerry Delaney]

Welcome to the OB pbridges. You will find many growers here willing to pass along information and help. The information already given is by far the most popular and many growers use the "bag" treatment to rescue plants with poor or no roots. While I envy them, I just never could quite get the knack of doing it successfully and usually wind up rotting the plant more. I am attaching a couple of pictures of a plant with no viable roots showing what I do to try and salvage plants. I use the plastic twist ties to make an artificial root system and then pot it in my media of choice depending upon the type of orchid. While it is most likely a second or third best choice, it's one that works for me many (but certainly not always) times. Good luck with your Phal!

[priz_m]

Originally Posted by Jerry Delaney

Welcome to the OB pbridges. You will find many growers here willing to pass along information and help. The information already given is by far the most popular and many growers use the "bag" treatment to rescue plants with poor or no roots. While I envy them, I just never could quite get the knack of doing it successfully and usually wind up rotting the plant more. I am attaching a couple of pictures of a plant with no viable roots showing what I do to try and salvage plants. I use the plastic twist ties to make an artificial root system and then pot it in my media of choice depending upon the type of orchid. While it is most likely a second or third best choice, it's one that works for me many (but certainly not always) times. Good luck with your Phal!

Wow Jerry that is an excellent idea

[dianecty]

You know, from months of experience since I started this hobby of ours, I realized that no coaxing will induce the plant to send out roots if it is not in the mood.

I do use Superthrive and KLN and they do help but if the plant doesn't want to send out roots, it doesn't. It has an effect on some orchids right away but on others, it's like waiting for the end of the world.

I wasn't paying attention to other orchids and then suddenly I realize that they grew a lot of roots (renanthera), so just wait and do your normal thing and use Superthrive or KLN. Sphag and bag never worked for me.

Oh, by the way, do not cut off dead roots or roots that look like they are dead! I have had many instances where the roots looked and felt dead but then after a while a root formed on it! I do keep my orchid roots exposed though with little or no medium so the dead roots don't rot, they just sit there.

Diane

[dianecty]

Jerry, what is the purpose of the plastic ties? They can't absorb water or bring it back to the plant. I'm puzzled. Thanks!

Diane

[quiltergal]

The twist ties anchor the plant in the medium so it doesn't just fall out of the pot. Nifty idea Jerry. I like it. I've not had great success with Sphag N Bag either. Mine usually end up a slimy rotting mass. However, Camille's idea of just tenting a bag over the plant and pot has really helped some of my nearly rootless ones. I put a few stakes in the pot and tent the plastic bag over the stakes. The stakes support the bag so the plant doesn't have to. The bag is open at the bottom so air exchange occurs. Just keep an eye out for mold.