newbie feeding question - Orchid Board

runLoganrun · #1 08-13-2008, 03:49 PM

I am growing two types of orchids, phal. and phrag., and depending on where I look there are varying degrees of similarities between what food should be used.

First of all there seems to be a divergance of opinion on whether or not phals need high nitrogen, or not, one thing I heard a while back was that they needed the extra nitrogen because it is used up in the process of fir bark breakdown, so if not using bark for medium then they don't need as much nitrogen. I am using a coconut husk mixture, so believe I would fall into that camp, if that is true. But aside from that I've read both that they need a balanced mixture, or they need a high nitrogen mix.

Same type of thing for phrags, when I try to look up info on feeding, although not as frequently, from what I gather, people reccomend a high nitrogen fertilizer for phrags as well, but it seems the general consensus is a balanced fertilizer, with micronutrients, the frequency of feeding varies quite a bit.

I also just read something about a phosphorous boost for flowering being a myth and based on early, innacurate findings. I'd be interested if anyone had feedback on that also.

But to finally get to my point, I'm looking to have one fertilizer for both types of plants, right now I have different food for both, plus bloom booster, and I want to simplify my process a little, assuming that is, if I can find something agreeable, and effective, for everything, although the frequencies of feeding might be different, which is fine.

Right now I have Better-Gro 20-14-13, that I've been using for Phals, and Dyna-Gro 7-9-5 on phrags. I'm doing the weakly, weekly feeding approach, with occasional plain water rinses (with exception to the phrags, who get watered so much more that I give them more plain water, and feed 1-2 times a week). Is there one of these foods that would be better suited for both plants, or something else I could by perhaps? I'm not positive on this, but I think the Dyna-Gro is a better food, but I am not sure if in this scenario, using one food for both plants, if I wouldn't be better off with their foliage mix, which is 9-3-6.

If there is one, which food can I use, that would provide good results, for both?

Why do the Dyna Gro products have a lower ratio of each number, ie: 7-9-5 v. 20-14-13, and is a lower ratio of nutrients better for one plant over the other?

Thanks very much for any help,
rlr

Ross · #2 08-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Guess I can't really comment on the info you've posted, but all my orchids get a "compromise" fertilizer (125ppm Nitrogen blend in RO water) with every single watering. In the case of Phals, that's when the roots turn from green to white/tan color (I use clear pots). With Paphs (I don't have Phrags, so no personal knowledge) I do essentially the same thing except their roots don't change color. I watch for moisture areas of wet medium to start drying, then water/fertilize. So maybe this sort of dabbles at an answer?

isurus79 · #3 08-13-2008, 05:16 PM

While I dont keep phrags, I do have 130+ plants of many different genera from all over the world. In my experience, a balanced fertilizer works perfectly. I use a 20-20-20 designed for orchids 2-3 times per month. I also feed with a fish fertilizer once a month just to make up for any micronutrient deficiencies that might occur if I used only 1 fert (this is probably more for my peace of mind than anything else). All my plants get the same fert regimine through the growing season, which for me is from about March through November. No one gets fert from December through February because many of the plants are "sleeping" (dormant). If you want to feed more often (such as weekly, weakly) go with a 10-10-10 or 5-5-5 so you dont over do it. Also make sure that you are using a urea free fert otherwise your roots will get burnt. Good luck!

Jadeco · #4 08-15-2008, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Guess I can't really comment on the info you've posted, but all my orchids get a "compromise" fertilizer (125ppm Nitrogen blend in RO water) with every single watering. In the case of Phals, that's when the roots turn from green to white/tan color (I use clear pots). With Paphs (I don't have Phrags, so no personal knowledge) I do essentially the same thing except their roots don't change color. I watch for moisture areas of wet medium to start drying, then water/fertilize. So maybe this sort of dabbles at an answer?

Phal roots? Whoa, I've never heard of this before. When I repotted a couple of my phals, I saw that the roots where white and green. So why do they change color? Is this good?

Brooke · #5 08-15-2008, 09:14 AM

Jadeco - white and green are good.

runLoganrun - I also grow phrags and find them to be very light feeders. I use rainwater and MSU at 1/4 strength every other feeding with a thorough flushing of the media the other times. Watch for leaf tip burn which is the best indication of over feeding.

My phrags are either in a CHC mix or in s/h.

Brooke

Grandma M · #6 08-15-2008, 09:56 AM

I use MSU fertilizer for ALL of my orchids, paph, phrags, phal, vanda, bulbo.......

Go to FirstRays site, it has lots of info about fertilizing. raybark@firstrays.com

Marilyn

runLoganrun · #7 08-15-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brooke

Jadeco - white and green are good.

runLoganrun - I also grow phrags and find them to be very light feeders. I use rainwater and MSU at 1/4 strength every other feeding with a thorough flushing of the media the other times. Watch for leaf tip burn which is the best indication of over feeding.

My phrags are either in a CHC mix or in s/h.

Brooke

what is MSU? I'm not sure what CHC or s/h is either actually, if you're talking about potting medium though, I'm using some pre-mixed stuff that seems pretty good, Potting Up, it has coconut husks, perlite, charcoal, diatomite, and a little promix.

I'm not sure about how many ppm I'm using, but I've been doing 1/4 tsp per gallon, about every 3 out of 4 waterings, I water the phrags a lot more frequently though.

do you feed differently for blooming at all, or at other times?

Thanks!
rlr

Ross · #8 08-15-2008, 02:37 PM

Sorry I missed your earlier post. Phal roots turn from white to green (hopefully) when you water. As Ray has explained, the outer coating of the "root" is dead cells that become transparent with high moisture. The green is the live cells underneath showing through. The point is, if Phal roots stay green 100% of the time, you may be in danger of them dieing, resulting in root decay.

MSU blend is a fertilizer many companies sell based on research done at Michigan State University that suggests a low level of fertilizer nutrients provided regularly to orchids is better than high doses provided on an infrequent basis (the so-called fertilize weekly, weakly method). We dub this whole thing "MSU mix" and the process can utilize either well/city water or "Pure" water (R.O./distilled/rain) but requires different compounds due to additive trace minerals. Hope I made this simple enough, but not too simple.

runLoganrun · #9 08-15-2008, 02:52 PM

Thanks, everyone, for all your input.
I think I'll go with that dyna-gro 7-9-5 for everything, for now, using it for every watering, then flushing out occasionally. it's the more balanced of the two I have, and I think it's better than the other food I have, at least as far as i've read. if you're using a quality non-urea fert though, aren't they all about the same?
thx,
rlr

runLoganrun · #10 08-15-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Sorry I missed your earlier post. Phal roots turn from white to green (hopefully) when you water. As Ray has explained, the outer coating of the "root" is dead cells that become transparent with high moisture. The green is the live cells underneath showing through. The point is, if Phal roots stay green 100% of the time, you may be in danger of them dieing, resulting in root decay.

MSU blend is a fertilizer many companies sell based on research done at Michigan State University that suggests a low level of fertilizer nutrients provided regularly to orchids is better than high doses provided on an infrequent basis (the so-called fertilize weekly, weakly method). We dub this whole thing "MSU mix" and the process can utilize either well/city water or "Pure" water (R.O./distilled/rain) but requires different compounds due to additive trace minerals. Hope I made this simple enough, but not too simple.

I'm using tap water. is it true that if you're using RO, or distilled water there is more of a concern about adding trace minerals as many are present in tap water? Is that what you were getting at? so MSU is like a type of fert then, not a brand?