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  #1  
Old 08-06-2008, 01:15 PM
dgenovese1 dgenovese1 is offline
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Hey All,
I’ve been sending PMs back and forth with Jenn about a photo I’ve posted in the gallery of one of my Vandas, V. Erika Cizek Dann (Sibling #2). In Jenn’s last message, she asked me a question about naming conventions for hybrid chids, and I thought I’d start a new thread explaining what I’ve learned, and also to help clarify any confusion I may have created.
Jenn had originally seen my photos and inquired about obtaining a V. Erika Cizek Dann (Sibling #2). I had explained that it was a one of a kind Vanda; however there are other V. Erika Cizek Dann plants available, which led to further questions about one of a kind plants and the differences between my V. Erika Cizek Dann plants, both Sibling #2 and Sibling #1, both of which are now posted below...sibling #2 first, followed by sibling #1

For any new orchid hybrid, when it is registered with the Royal Horticultural Society (the clearinghouse for all orchid hybrids and their names) it is given its hybrid name, for example V. Erika Cizek Dann or Lc. Mary Ellen Carter.

Under most circumstances, if a grower has a particularly good plant/bloomer of a hybrid and they receive an AOS or other Orchid Society award, they get the opportunity to give that particular plant its clonal (or varietal) name, which will follow the Hybrid name, enclosed in single quote marks, such as Lc. Mary Ellen Carter 'Dixie Hummingbird' HCC/AOS. The last part here, “HCC/AOS” is the award designation. In this case it is a Highly Commended Certificate from the American Orchid Society. In some cases, a grower might not get an award for their plant, but will unofficially provide it with a clonal name so that it can be distinguished from other siblings in that cross, such as with Blc. Fritz Nickolaus ‘Spring Dance’.
This is kind of what I did with my 2 V. Erika Cizek Dann plants, but for me I just labeled then Sibling #1 and #2 respectively so I could tell them apart. Take note that I do not have my labels enclosed in single quotation marks. Both of my plants are one of a kind plants because they have not been cloned or divided in any way. This leads to the next part of this thread.

For whatever reason a plant is given a clonal name, arbitrarily or because it has won an award, every plant that carries that clonal name is an exact duplicate of the original, and should therefore look exactly alike when it blooms. Therefore, every Lc. Mary Ellen Carter 'Dixie Hummingbird' HCC/AOS should look identical.
If it has the same hybrid name, but not the same clonal name, chances are that it will look different, much in the same way that human siblings look different from one another even though they share the same parents. That is why my 2 V. Erika Cizek Dann plants look so different. They share the same parents but are not clones or divisions of the same plant.

That’s kind of it in a nutshell …and of course there are exceptions that people make to the rules so they can make an extra buck and so on…and then there is the distinct possibility that I don’t know everything…in fact there is nothing that I know everything about, so please add more where I am lacking…

By the way, I am trying to win an award on my Sibling #2, and when I do it will have an official clonal name…and I will then see what I can do about cloning it so that others can enjoy it in there collection too. Jenn and Swamper are at the top of the list for dibbs on babies or clones when that happens.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
Dorothy Dorothy is offline
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Thank you David for a very well-thought explanation ..
I couldn't have said it better

.. as much as the theory of consistent traits within a cultivar expects a predictable outcome ..
Occasionally, Mother Nature likes to put her hand in there and produce something other than is expected ..

Last edited by Dorothy; 08-06-2008 at 03:33 PM..
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2008, 04:10 PM
dgenovese1 dgenovese1 is offline
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.. as much as the theory of consistent traits within a cultivar expects a predictable outcome ..
Occasionally, Mother Nature likes to put her hand in there and produce something other than is expected ..
Dorothy...don't you just love it when that happens?!
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2008, 03:56 PM
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David, that was pretty good, but there are a couple of clarifications needed:
  1. The proper term is "cultivar name" not clonal name (unless, of course, it has been cloned). Divisions of a plant are not clones, but do carry the same cultivar name.
  2. Quote:
    In some cases, a grower might not get an award for their plant, but will unofficially provide it with a clonal name so that it can be distinguished from other siblings in that cross...
    Anyone, at any time, may give a unique name to a cultivar, and it is "official" at that point. In order to receive the award, it must have a cultivar name.
  3. Also, it is not kosher to change a cultivar name, although some unscrupulous folks have done so, gaining awards on already awarded plants.
  4. While cloned or divided plants - the same cultivar - should be genetically identical, culture will affect appearances, so if you compare two of the same plant but they look dissimilar, that doesn't necessarily mean they are different cultivars.
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:16 PM
Dorothy Dorothy is offline
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Dave -

Ray - Thanks for the clarification
Your #4 was the basic point of my comment about the natural predictability of the unexpected
(or the unpredictable nature of the unexpected .. well you know what I mean .. I hope )

Last edited by Dorothy; 08-07-2008 at 04:19 PM..
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2008, 05:01 PM
dgenovese1 dgenovese1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post
David, that was pretty good, but there are a couple of clarifications needed:
Ray,
Thanks for clarifying the terminology and the way cultivar names are used; your commenst are appreciated. I always thought that the plant needed to have an award to receive an official cultivar name...but alas, I am still learning!
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2008, 05:57 PM
JennS JennS is offline
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Great start to this discussion! Thanks for starting it Dave. I am excited to be in line, even if it may be years and years away. I still have a few good orchid growing years in me....HAHA.

Ray, thanks for the clarifications. I wouldn't have known the differences without them.

Keep the comments coming! I want to learn more!!!
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2008, 06:27 PM
shakkai shakkai is offline
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David, not much to add to your explanation - well said. But I did want to just say - WOW! That is one super looking Vanda! I'm over here
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2008, 10:20 PM
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I agree on the vanda. Save a few clones for me, will you?
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  #10  
Old 08-07-2008, 11:09 PM
Swamper Swamper is offline
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Another one of those "how'd I miss this thread"...Thanks for keeping me in mind for clones or babies or even eggs LOL
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