Beginner's advice on "sphag-in-bag" technique for Phals - Orchid Board

nature · #1 07-11-2008, 04:54 PM

,

I am the new owner of 2 ailing Phals (pix at bottom). With no experience but reading and researching to go on, I have endeavored to save them. First, when I adopted these two plants Phal #1 was in a terra cotta pot, had two nice green leaves (with some browning on the edges), and two flowers. Phal #2 had no blooms, and was in a frosted glass container with no drainage holes! This one I could see condensation collecting on the inside/bottom. Both of these plants had been in a large, bright room with little to no direct sunlight, and were not being watered. Neither had any green nodes, they were brown and dry.

I was very concerned about Phal #2, so I started on this one first. After reading that bark is one of the most popular mediums to put orchids in I got some and a terra cotta pot approximately one inch larger than the frosted glass container that it had been in. I un-potted it and snipped the rotten roots, this was not a quick or easy feat, and I am not sure that I got everything. I then covered the bottom of the pot with shards of terra cotta and put some bark in, then the phal with the hurt roots, then more bark (which I had soaked overnight). I put it on a rack that would allow all the air circulation and drainage that it needed. I also put some water in it which just ran out the bottom. I left this here for about 2 days, misting it a little bit and watching one leaf slowly yellow.

A few days later I un-potted it again

, clipped even more rot from the bottom, rinsed it and gently cleansed the crown with a vegetable brush, disinfected the roots and crown with baking soda and hydrogen peroxide before inserting it into a gallon sized ziplock bag with sphagnum moss. I did the same with Phal #1 after realizing that it too had root rot.

I placed both bagged plants on the floor in a bright room, but in the partial shade of 2 large plants. They receive no direct sunlight. The temperature is probably hot, being that this is New York in July, and there is no air conditioning.

I feel horrible that this is so long, but here are my questions!

Is this correct way to do the infamous "Sphag-in-bag" technique, and was this an appropriate reaction to the root rot? (see pics)

What should I watch for?

Wouldn't the roots suffer more from being contained in this way?

Lastly, how do I know if I have removed all the rot when clipping the roots?

Thank you so much! Any and all advice is very much appreciated. It is so nice to be a member of orchid board!

Becca · #2 07-11-2008, 05:03 PM

Hi and welcome to the OB! My one question for you is in the pictures of the two orchids you have Sphag-n-baged, what is the brown stuff in the bag? Soil? For Sphag-n-bag you shouldn't have any type of potting medium in with the orchid other then a small amount of moist Sphagnum Moss, preferably not touching the roots. I would take your orchids out of the stuff they are sitting in in the bags ASAP! Hope this helps! Also, with Sphag-n-bag it takes a lot of patience...it could take month's and month's to see it rebound. Yellowing of the leaves may be normal since it may be in shock from cutting the rot off of the roots up into the good area of the roots, but that is what is needed. Just have patience and try not to mess with it and let it do it's thing after you take that brown stuff out of the bag

Good luck!

irrka · #3 07-11-2008, 07:59 PM

Also, the one in pic#1 and #4 may have enough roots to plop it into a pot in a shady place.

nature · #4 07-12-2008, 04:23 AM

wow, the brown stuff in the bag is what I thought was sphagnum moss! I do need help... I bought this stuff labeled "Sphagnum Peat Moss" but I guess it has some soil mixed with it...

I will take it out right away... I heard that putting it in a damp paper towel in the interim if you don't have sphagnum moss works.

One more question, would you recommend using KLN root stimulator on either of the plants?

Thanks

Ray · #5 07-12-2008, 08:27 AM

Chalk another one up to orchid growers being insufficiently specific!

In the world of orchid growing, "sphagnum" is used generically to describe the dried strands of any number of species of moss, the best being long-stranded species from New Zealand and Chile.

As the moss population grows, and the older stuff dies and decomposes, it collects as the "peat" moss we know and love for mixing with potting soil. Yes, it is indeed "sphagnum peat moss", but even if you got the live moss before it became "peat-ified", the native North American species aren't all that good as a medium.

Back to sphag-n-bag, as Becca ststed, you don't really want the moisture-bearing substance in contact with the plant. The idea of the technique is to provide sufficient humidity (read that as maximum humidity) to prevent the plant from desiccating while it grows new roots. That, when coupled with warmth and shade, "kick-starts" the plant's growth rate, and in due time it will form new roots, and then can be potted up.

In the mean time, the plant will work primarily off of its stored water and nutrition - having no roots to speak of, it cannot easily absorb more anyway!

K-L-N can be a help, and if you want to use it, put about a teaspoon in a gallon of tepid water and submerge the entire plant in it for a good 30 minutes or more, and then bag it up.

cloudswinger · #6 07-12-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irrka

Also, the one in pic#1 and #4 may have enough roots to plop it into a pot in a shady place.

I agree. I've had phals with less roots than that and I still left them in a pot. The other one with less roots is still growing a small root too, so I wouldn't bag either one. I'd stick them in a pot and leave them mostly alone. They will lose leaves, but they have to rebalance the plant structure. Small root system, less leaves. The newer leaves will be smaller too.

The hardest thing is having patience, you want them to get better, but it takes more than a few days for any progress to be seen.

priz_m · #7 07-12-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloudswinger

I agree. I've had phals with less roots than that and I still left them in a pot. The other one with less roots is still growing a small root too, so I wouldn't bag either one. I'd stick them in a pot and leave them mostly alone. They will lose leaves, but they have to rebalance the plant structure. Small root system, less leaves. The newer leaves will be smaller too.

The hardest thing is having patience, you want them to get better, but it takes more than a few days for any progress to be seen.

Nature welcome to the OB! I agree with cloudswinger and irrka. I would pot them in a nice airy mix (such as bark) and put them in a warm shady location, hold the water for a couple weeks.

Hope they recover

keep us posted

nature · #8 07-15-2008, 01:58 PM

Thank you everyone! This has been very helpful. I immediately took out that sphagnum peat moss.

I am so scared, do you think leaving them in the bag with moss will harm them rather than help? I would rather take the safest route being that I have never cared for one and I don't really know warning signs of dehydration, rot, or anything else.

I read somewhere that putting a phal in bark when the roots are so weak can put it into shock. Is this true at all?

Thanks again

irrka · #9 07-15-2008, 02:19 PM

I haven't heard of it, maybe someone who has could pipe in. I know that i've potted plants with about as many roots as 1&4 and they did fine.

priz_m · #10 07-15-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nature

I read somewhere that putting a phal in bark when the roots are so weak can put it into shock. Is this true at all?

Thanks again

I want to say yes, because the phal I took out of a bag (with plenty of new roots) did not like the bark, LECA or sphag and lost them all... again, it it actually going back in a bag tonight.

But don't take my word for it, it is the first time I tried s&b