Big Orchid = Mature Orchid? - Orchid Board

dianecty · #1 06-19-2008, 12:48 PM

Hi everyone! I have several dendrobiums that have grown so rapidly from say 3 1/2" tall to 9" tall in 2 months! They are so fat and are growing many roots.

This is my question. Does it mean that since they are big that they are more mature and are closer to having blooms or are they just big?

You know what I mean? It is just like when we were in grade school - some students are really big and tall and some are normal size and some are small - but they are the same age. It doesn't mean that the bigger kids are more mature than the smaller kids right? My question is hard to explain.

Thanks!!

(..._...) · #2 06-19-2008, 12:58 PM

I don't know that much about dendrobiums, but I'd say they are blooming size. I'm not sure how long it takes to get one of the larger dens. to flower though...

I'm sure others know about this

Ross · #3 06-19-2008, 12:59 PM

I don't know on most Dendros, but most "mature" plants (many of which are not necessarily "big") are either blooming size or ready to bloom when the current growth matures. Lots of times that means the plant is much larger. Certainly seedling plants are usually very small compared to the parents, but not always (some minis are always approx same size - Sophronitis cernua is one example - but keep adding growths till they are ready to bloom.)

Sorry this post is so complex, but the question doesn't have an easy answer. Perhaps someone else grows this Dendro and has an idea of typical mature growth size. For what it's worth, the answer is partly buried in your last paragraph. I can cite some plants that stayed a certain size, bloomed faithfully, then responded to a different growing regime by doubling in size. They also had much fuller blooms.

Things leading to larger size:

Maturity - older plants with larger parts.
More nutrients - leads to more vigorous growth.
Better cultural processes - better watering schemes, better water, different fertilizer, different lighting, etc.

There are probably others as well. Hope this helps.

dianecty · #4 06-19-2008, 01:19 PM

Hi Ross! Thank you for your explanation. It's very hard to understand.

I guess what I am asking is - does age or size determine maturity enough to flower?

Does the orchid have to have been alive a certain # of years (age) before it can bloom or can it bloom just as long as it reaches a certain size?

Ross · #5 06-19-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dianecty

Hi Ross! Thank you for your explanation. It's very hard to understand.

I guess what I am asking is - does age or size determine maturity enough to flower?

Does the orchid have to have been alive a certain # of years (age) before it can bloom or can it bloom just as long as it reaches a certain size?

Much easier to answer

For the first question, the answer is yes. Sometimes absolute size is the answer, sometimes age. But the most important factor you didn't ask about - proper culture. Let me give you a for instance: Dendrobium anosmum. This will easily grow to great size (see Dendrobium anosmum) and yet not bloom at all. The factors making it want to bloom are: complete rest, withholding all moisture and nutrients for several winter months, keeping it in full sun (where possible), and then waiting till the magic occurs. In this case, size is not the issue. You asked if size implies (my words) blooming-ready. In this case no.

Does age or size determine blooming ability? Maybe. (See where this is going?) Certainly a seedling is not capable of blooming (normally). But the point where an orchid is ready to bloom is dependent on lots of things - that's what this whole treatise of mine is trying to say. I can see where you are coming from, and the answer is not real simple (at least to me and my experiences). In short, larger growths are good. It means you are on the proper path. Lots of roots are always good. Will the larger growths necessarily bloom? Maybe. You need additional advice (specific) from growers of this specific Dendro to go much further. Or wait to see what developes? I really am sorry I can't make this any simpler. I know what you were hoping for, but I don't think the answer is that simple.

dianecty · #6 06-19-2008, 09:37 PM

Gotcha! The ones i am talking about are dend nobiles. One of them has 4 shoots with 3 groups each. I think those will turn into flowers. The others are so active in growing roots and shoots.

That's why I transferred my other seedling dends and oncidiums from sphag to lava rock now like my fast growing dends and oncidiums. I think because the roots are so exposed that when I water them, they absorb the nutrients and water so fast too. Maybe with the others, the sphag absorbs the stuff, not the roots.

I can't believe the growth of my sharry baby oncidium, it used to have pseudobulbs 2" high (not incl leaves) and somewhat thin, now they are around 4" high and really fat!!! All in 2 months too!

My seedling catts and phals are my problem right now. They hardly grow and they are in sphag. I put all my seedlings in sphag when I first got them (incl the now fat dends and onc). Don't know what to do to make them grow faster and fatter. I got them all 2 months ago.

Junebug · #7 06-19-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dianecty

Hi everyone! I have several dendrobiums that have grown so rapidly from say 3 1/2" tall to 9" tall in 2 months! They are so fat and are growing many roots.

This is my question. Does it mean that since they are big that they are more mature and are closer to having blooms or are they just big?

You know what I mean? It is just like when we were in grade school - some students are really big and tall and some are normal size and some are small - but they are the same age. It doesn't mean that the bigger kids are more mature than the smaller kids right? My question is hard to explain.

Thanks!!

I don't know if this will help but I have had success with many Dendrobiums. Most of mine are rescues, but this is how they have matured for me. During growing season an established mature Den will usually have three types of growth going on.

1. Older growth. This growth will no longer flower, has no leaves or is loosing leaves, and the pseudobulbs appear wrinkled. Note: The older canes store energy for the plant and you should not remove these until they have become completely dry and yellowed.

2. Last seasons growth. These canes are full sized. The canes look healthy and plump with dried sheaths surrounding them and they also exhibit healthy leaves. These are the growths that usually produce the blooms and may produce again from one season to the next.

3. Fresh new growth. These growths usually sprout from the base of the plant and grow rapidly. The base of the new growth will send out many new roots into the medium and is a sign of good health. These new growths will generally bless you with a bloom the following season.

I hope this was helpful in determining what type of growth you have.

Have you got any photos of the plant?

Jerry Delaney · #8 06-20-2008, 12:09 AM

[QUOTE=dianecty;117871]Gotcha! The ones i am talking about are dend nobiles. One of them has 4 shoots with 3 groups each. I think those will turn into flowers. The others are so active in growing roots and shoots.

Nobile Dendrobiums need a some special care to bloom properly (or bloom at all in some cases). First, in late fall, flush the pots well with just water. From that time on, water very, VERY sparingly (if at all depending upon your growing conditions). If you do water them DO NOT fertilize them. If they receive much nitrogen during this dormant period, the shoots that you think are going to be blooms next spring will give you a nasty surprise and turn out to be kikis. If you have hybrids that were made a number of years ago, they will also need to receive temperatures at night in the 40's to bloom well. Many of the newer hybrids do not need the cold nights to bloom well.

dianecty · #9 06-20-2008, 04:00 PM

The little bunches of shoots at the top, on the side of the large stalk - those are already confirmed to be flowers right? They are not suddenly going to turn into keikis because of a different physionomy.

Tell me truly!

Jerry Delaney · #10 06-20-2008, 04:17 PM

As far as I know, whether the growths you see turn out to be kikis or flowers was determined before you ever saw them. I have had nobile Dendrobiums bloom without any of the treatment I mentioned above (I thought they were a little small to bloom so they just had to prove me wrong). However, they only produced a small # of flowers. You will know soon enough. Nobile Dendrobiums of the size you mentioned are of blooming size. Good luck with them. Well flowered, nobiles can absolutely stunning!