Total Root Loss After Repotting

[cherrypuff]

Hi all, I recently repotted some of my grocery store phals. They were previously in tight sphagnum moss, and I repotted them into 100% Orchiata bark.

Today I decided to check the roots of one of those orchids, and to my horror, almost all of the existing root system was rotted. Even some of the existing root tips that were growing have rotted.

What is the best course of action here? Should I continue to keep this in bark? Or should I repot it into 100% sphagnum moss? Or maybe 50% moss 50% bark?

My climate have been averaging 85F/29.4C days, and 79F/26.1C nights. Watering is not an issue for me, I just want to save these orchids .

[tmoney]

howdy! yeah, we learned this lesson the hard way as well...many, many times!! roots that have established in one type of media (moss) and then placed in a different type (bark) cannot adapt and will likely suffer and die. the deeper lesson is, try to repot when you see new roots starting to grow so that the new roots can adapt to the new media and sustain the plant.

ok, now what to do?? we have no idea! hahah, all joking aside you have a couple options. leave it as is, water very sparingly until you see new roots growing. second, you can try the bag and sphag method. put the whole plant in a clear bag and set the roots/base onto some damp moss. third, you can try water culture...this is now our preferred method of saving orchids that have done exactly what yours have. put any existing (including dead or dying) roots down into a drinking glass. fill the glass, submerging the roots 2x per week, and let it soak for 8-12 hours each soaking.

others will suggest other methods im sure! either way, best of luck with the recoveries!

[estación seca]

Can you provide root photos? When you say they are rotted, what do they look like? Sorry to ask such a basic question but I don't know how much experience you have.

I would be very surprised for a Phal. to develop rotten roots after repotting into bark at those temperatures.

[cherrypuff]

Ah, I've already cut off most of the dead roots and thrown them away. When I refer to roots that were rotted, I mean that they felt papery and hollow. The velamen slid right off the root.

I totally agree that it's surprising for a phal to rot its roots so quickly after repotting. The new medium probably shocked it too much.

What would be the best course of action here on out?

[WaterWitchin]

Dry and papery... probably not enough water after removing from sphagnum that likely stayed more moist. Transferring to new bark, you need to water more often than with the tightly packed sphag they were likely in from the grocery store. Next time, don't cut off the dry roots. Even if the velamen came off, the root may still be able to uptake some moisture while the plant is growing new roots.

What size bark?

[Ray]

@cherrypuff:

Here's what happened: As roots grow, they "tailor" themselves on a cellular level to function optimally in that root environment under the current growing conditions, and once they have grown, they cannot change.

When you repot, you move them into a different environment, which renders them "sub-optimal" and they will begin to fail. The bigger the difference in conditions, the faster that occurs.

That's why it's always best to repot just as new roots are emerging from the base of the plant - the new roots will grow optimized for that environment and support the plant as the old ones fade.

Here's how I handle such issues:

►Immerse the rootless plant in a 1 ounce/gallon Kelpak solution for an hour or two. It has no roots and foliar uptake in many orchids isn't all that fast, hence the complete immersion.

►Prewet your potting medium with the same Kelpak solution, then pot the plant up, also watering it in with that solution.

►Invert a clear plastic bag over the plant and pot, leaving the bottom open. Move it to a shaded location and keep it really warm. If it needs water during recovery, use a 1 TBSP/gal Kelpak solution.

Having no roots, the plant cannot take up water, but can become desiccated by losing it through transpiration. By maximizing the humidity around it, you slow that process, giving the plant time to grow new roots.

After 4-6 weeks, you should see roots emerging, and once they have penetrated the medium, you can remove the bags and put it with the rest of your collection.

[estación seca]

I don't think those roots were completely dead, and they likely could have taken up some water. I suggest never cutting off roots.

[Mountaineer370]

Just for context, this is the same new member who posted just a couple days ago that he had repotted some Phals from sphagnum into Orchiata, I believe Power (medium) size, and was watering twice a day because the roots at the side of the pot would quickly become pale colored. Most of us who responded there suggested that was too much watering and to cut it back to every other day or so.

Overwatering in Orchiata Bark?

cherrypuff, I'm sorry this is happening. I think there must be something about your growing conditions we're not understanding. I myself have repotted many plants over the years that arrived to me in pure sphagnum, and because I'm not good with sphagnum, I repotted them into Orchiata. I've never lost one. I do give them time to adjust to my temps/light/humidity for anywhere from a few days to a week before surprising them with a repot. And sometimes, if they are in very tightly packed moss, I will cut down the sides of the pot to expose it to more air and loosen up the sphagnum for a few more days before repotting. So, in other words, I try to give them a gradual introduction to living a different way at my house.

The other members who have already posted here have offered suggestions that I hope will help you revive this plant. And as one member suggests, perhaps more photos will help us.

Edited to add link to previous thread.

[tmoney]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer370

And sometimes, if they are in very tightly packed moss, I will cut down the sides of the pot to expose it to more air and loosen up the sphagnum for a few more days before repotting. So, in other words, I try to give them a gradual introduction to living a different way at my house.
.

great tip! never thought of doing that, and not sure ive seen it shared elsewhere. seems to make sense, and we will have to give it a try with out next moss debacle

thanks!

[cherrypuff]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Dry and papery... probably not enough water after removing from sphagnum that likely stayed more moist. Transferring to new bark, you need to water more often than with the tightly packed sphag they were likely in from the grocery store.

Ah, this orchid was potted in a 5" pot with 100% Orchiata bark. At first, I was watering it when the roots on the side of the pot were looking silvery and frail (about twice a day). After posting about it here, many of you recommended that I cut back on the watering, which I have since done (once every 2 days). Because of this, I don't think overwatering was an issue here, but please feel free to correct me.

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Next time, don't cut off the dry roots. Even if the velamen came off, the root may still be able to uptake some moisture while the plant is growing new roots.

Got it, I will keep this in mind for the future.

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

What size bark?

Orchiata bark, 3/8" 1/2"

---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Ray

That's why it's always best to repot just as new roots are emerging from the base of the plant - the new roots will grow optimized for that environment and support the plant as the old ones fade.

Ah I see. The problem is, many of the root tips that were previously green and growing have since turned black and mushy.