Dealing with rescued phalaenopsis

[Dimples]

None of that looks like thrips to me. Most of it looks like physical damage, maybe some old pest damage, but nothing I’d be too concerned about.

[buzzlightyear]

Originally Posted by greenochre

Nobody says you should find and cut all of the rotten roots with any other plant, instead, you should concentrate on providing the right environment, and then the plant will be able to fight the fungi by itself.

And as far as I know, no plant has any roots for a lifetime - old roots inevitably die and new roots grow, that's how plants work. If an infection from an old dying root always spread, no plants would survive.

Also, if black/brown/mushy roots are so dead, how come pretty often there is a perfectly healthy green root growing from the old mushy one?

Seems I didn't read your original post before making my assessment on your plants. I predicted your issue without reading your post properly, I just instantly recognised the damage.

What you say about roots is correct. Trust your instincts. If you think a root is rotten then it most certainly is. A lot of times discussion on here emind me of a debate on whether republics aor democrats are a better political party. You do not just trust the first person's argument blindly. If someone tells you the sky is in fact purple, you should not go telling others it is so.

People believe all sorts of things. When asking a question online, it takes more experience to realize something is just someones opinion or whether something is a fact. PRetty much everything siad online about orchids is an opinion which makes things compicated.

Some believe in maintaining a healthy root system. The roots are the foundation of the orchid. If the roots struggle then everything else eventually struggles.

What you describe about a rotten root having a green root growing from it. This is misleading. Yes you see this happen all the time. But the rotten part is indeed rotten. Often times a non rotten root can take many months to die. Like cut it off the orchid, keep it humid and it will take months to start decomposing even though it is separated from the orchid and will never grow a new plant from it. So these green root parts you see at the end of a root that has rotted, they are no longer part of the plant, they will never grow again and they will eventually rot, they just haven't yet.

Ok so on to the part about the plant being able to grow out of the rot. Absoultely correct. That is your aim. But it helps to remove dead leaves and dead roots from time to time. Too many dead roots that are rotting at the same time will cause the ph in your pot to change which can negatively impact the orchid. So a few rotten roots is ok, too many can cause a bad situation in the pot where things stay too mushy and cause further rot or just a ph imbalance. Anyway that is the reason to remove dead roots. One does not need to meticulously cut it all away.

Anyway I believe in maintaining excellent roots. I know many do not and some will not even accept rot is rot even if it is slimy and smells bad. There's no wrong way to grow. Well unless you kill the orchid I would argue but they are very resilient. It's just how much effort you want to put into it.

Getting rid of thrips will be one of the hardest things to do. It would be easier getting rid of an infestation of bed bugs, squirrels in the attic, mice in the basement, rats in the shed, and some cockroaches in the kitchen all at the same time.

Anyway thrips will damage buds and cause bud blast. They will damage leaves and cause crown rot. And they also damage roots, cause fungi and bacteria to grow on the damaged parts and this in turn causes root rot. This is why I predicted you had thrips without reading your post properly. You descibed all the symtpoms they cause.

Many times growers will get bud blast and blame a chilly draft, they will get crown rot and blame water, they will get root rot and blame the media.

Many grow orchids believing this for decades and decades.

People used to believe the earth was flat for centuries. To realize the earth was round took a long long time and even then people did not want to believe it and would try to cling on to their existing beliefs even sometimes distorting their view on reality and facts because accepting a different realizty would mess up their existing core beliefs too much.

It's fascinating whatone can learn about people online really. The bottom line for me is, it takes more experience to interpret online advice than the experience it takes to grow orchids.

That howevre takes many as long to figure out as it does to learn about them, we cannot ask the orchids. So any advice is someone's interpretation of what they need.

[greenochre]

Originally Posted by Dimples

None of that looks like thrips to me. Most of it looks like physical damage, maybe some old pest damage, but nothing I’d be too concerned about.

I'm worried because I've never seen such damage before, and it seems to appear on almost all my plants simultaneously

[greenochre]

So, about 10 days ago I received Kelpak, gave my rescued Phals a good soak and then repotted them. After reading a lot of threads here I decided to use lava rock. Initially I used large chunk lava rock (photo #3), but it was drying way too quickly - I watered in the morning, and in the evening they already seemed dry. So I decided to use smaller volcanic gravel + a bit of sphagnum moss (photo #4)

Unfortunately, this mix doesn't dry even in 3-4 days, so I guess I need to repot again, using only volcanic gravel

Also, the day before yesterday I accidentaly learned that putting rocks or leca at the bottom of the pots not only doesn't improve drainage (I was told the opposite for all my life!), it actually makes things worse and increase the risk of root rot. This explained why I had so many problems, especially with small pots - so I had to replant all my plants, which took a whole day.

But I never put anything on the bottom of phals pots, I just filled them with substrate, so it doesn't explain why I constantly kill rescued Phals.

When I was repotting, I discovered the biggest (and the most recent) rescue has lost a lot of the roots - the velamin was slimey and got off when touched.
Before I interpreted such cases as 'I have root rot again, probably my substrate is bad'. After discussing things here I think that maybe this roots were already in bad health being suffocated in shop substrate, so they eventually died and I should just wait. We'll see

I also put the heating mat under the orchids instead of having it behind them, and added a humidifier

Question about watering: should I wait for the substrate to be completely bone dry, or just not wet?

[greenochre]

On Jan 8th I got two more rescues - a mini Phal, and another orchid without any tag (Oncidium?) - I already have one rescue of this type, and it's doing pretty well despite being potted in bark/sphagnum/lava rock mix - tons of new growth. People always say Phals are the most easy orchids, but for unknown reason I always kill them, while literally all the others I have are fine.

I didn't cut anything, only removed slimy roots with my fingers, gave them a kelpak soak and potted using the same lava gravel + sphagnum mix. Small phal since then have two lower leaves became yellowish, which isn't good, but again, I don't know if it's caused by previous damage in the store or by my actions

[Roberta]

Sounds like you're doing the right things. Just remember, Patience (my mantra..) Orchids don't do anything fast. It took them a long time to get in trouble with those bad substrates in the shop (very common... nobody pays the vendors to repot...) and it will take them some time to recover. Progress is measured in months, not days or even weeks. So keep up the loving care! You won't succeed on 100% of percent of them, but you'll have some successes. And learn a lot.

[Dimples]

As far as when to water, if you’re using large chunk lava rock you can (and probably will have to) water twice a day without causing problems.

If you use a more moisture retentive medium, water as the center approaches dryness. Take a wooden skewer that’s long enough to reach the bottom of the pot and shove it into the pot (it stays in the pot with the plant). When you think it’s time to water, pull the skewer out and feel the length of it. If it’s wet or moderately damp, wait another day. If it’s lightly damp or beginning to dry, it’s time to water.

---------- Post added at 03:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

The lava rock + sphagnum looks like it will be better for your rescues than the lava alone. The rocks will provide structure and air pockets, the moss will provide ample moisture. Avoiding dehydration is the primary concern right now.

[greenochre]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Sounds like you're doing the right things. Just remember, Patience (my mantra..) Orchids don't do anything fast. It took them a long time to get in trouble with those bad substrates in the shop (very common... nobody pays the vendors to repot...) and it will take them some time to recover. Progress is measured in months, not days or even weeks. So keep up the loving care! You won't succeed on 100% of percent of them, but you'll have some successes. And learn a lot.

I care more about figuring out what works then saving the particular plants. I hate when I feel there is a pattern but I can't get it.

I wonder why, while in the shop, Phals in very old substrates have root rot but have some healthy roots as well, but each time after I repot them, the roots start rapidly deteriorating. It can't be a coincidence, looks like I'm somehow making things worse for them. Maybe it's a stress over the substrate change? Maybe it's better not to get rid of as much old substrate as possible, but rather replace it in small steps, little by little?

[Roberta]

When the substrate environment is changed, roots do tend to die. That is why you see the advice to only repot when there is new root growth, important for genera such as Cattleyas that may only grow roots at certain times of year. Phals tend to be growing and rooting all the time, so that's not so important. Of course, the hope is that new ones will grow before the plant expires. You really do need to get rid of that nasty old substrate. You can remove rotted old velamin (the root coating) with your fingers. The stringlike "core" of the root, however, you should try to save especially if there aren't good roots - they can passively hydrate the plant, though not as efficiently as a good root of course. Black spots on the roots are usually not a problem if the plant is allowed to get nearly dry between waterings. In fact, sometimes a root that looks like the middle part is rotted, can make a branch. So be very reluctant to cut. The other thing the stringy root core can do is to help hold the plant in place in the new mix - holding the plant firmly is really, really important, since new roots have very delicate hairs on their growing tips, that are easily damaged by any motion that lets them rub against the substrate. It is best to avoid "treatments" - common treatments for rot, etc. such as peroxide and cinnamon, can also damage new, growing roots. So mostly, "tincture of time" - warmth, humidity, little disturbance.

[estación seca]

Are you treating the roots with anything when you repot? I water a newly-repotted plant with Kelpak solution, but I wouldn't use anything else.