Neo keiki leaf browning, roots are a little dry

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by estación seca

What were the temperatures in there?

Daytime ranges from 68-75°F, maybe 67 sometimes and maybe like 76-77 during the summer.

Nighttime ranges from 62-67°F, though one night it got to 60.

The cabinet is in the office that's got a nice sun roof and windows looking out to the backyard.

I was just thinking of maybe putting the Neos on one of the South facing windowsills. None are super bright with how the windows are and where the house is relative to the path of the sun.

[estación seca]

Others may disagree, but I would keep Neos quite dry with nights in the low 60s F / 16-18C unless the next day were very much warmer. They can tolerate months of dryness during cool weather in winter but go quickly if they are moist and cool. Coastal S California hasn't had extended wet and dark periods in winter for some time so the sunny, warmer days can compensate for cool, moist nights.

[alecStewart1]

Some photos of the unpotted plant.

It looks rough but I'm optimistic and think it's salvageable.

I

1. Took the guy out of it's moss and dumped the moss,
2. Dusted the plant with some sulfur fungicide,
3. Washed the fungicide off after letting it sit for a little bit,
4. Soaked it in a solution of the Quantum Total and clean water (that Quantum Total smells nasty),
5. Let it dry out some.
6. Soaked it in a solution of Kelpak

Currently the plant is chilling outside of any substrate, bare roots, kind of like growing it in a basket except it's in a pot.

I've been letting it soak in some Kelpak in the mornings and evenings for about 30 minutes the past 2 days, one watering I pour the Quantum Total solution on the plant and it's roots. Took me awhile to get the Quantum Total smell off of my hands.

Fingers crossed my efforts aren't in vain.

[Roberta]

If it were my plant I'd pot it up in some fresh sphagnum, loosely packed (the goal is "humidity" around the roots but lots of air.
0 A plastic basket would be even better than a pot. The roots look OK. It is likely to produce a basal growth (new fan). Then, you don't need to keep messing with it, let it recover. Keep the sphagnum damp but not soggy... again, the goal is "humid air" in the root zone. It is, after all, a Vanda. Even if it loses the leaves before the new growth starts, it may still produce that new growth, depending on the season. And get yourself another Neo just for insurance. (I think you have received that advice already)

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by Roberta

If it were my plant I'd pot it up in some fresh sphagnum, loosely packed (the goal is "humidity" around the roots but lots of air.
0 A plastic basket would be even better than a pot.
[ ... ]
Then, you don't need to keep messing with it, let it recover.

I was planning on potting it up tomorrow, when I have the time. Luckily I have a bunch of sphagnum moss around.

I wouldn't mind putting it in a basket, but it's so small that I'm unsure of where to find a basket locally that wouldn't be absurd for it.

Originally Posted by Roberta

Even if it loses the leaves before the new growth starts, it may still produce that new growth, depending on the season.

It had a growth but I don't know if that growth is going to stick around. Here's hoping.

Originally Posted by Roberta

And get yourself another Neo just for insurance. (I think you have received that advice already)

I just made post about one (well, one of) I got not too long ago.

[alecStewart1]

Just as a quick update, the plant is potted in loose moss. I would've done a proper moss mound but it was after a long day of housework so I didn't feel light learning how to do make a moss mound. I'm making sure to keep it damp/moist but not wet/soggy.

I moved the Neos and the Leptotes I have over to a South facing window that doesn't get too insanely bright. The other Neos I've had are all in a bark mix, so it's a bit easier to not get that medium too wet in any way with watering.

I think I'll need to master keeping moss just moist/damp and then letting it dry between watering. I have a Calathea ornata that's kind of similar with it's watering year around, so maybe I have to think of watering the Neos like that plant. Granted it has a way bigger pot so getting it just moist/damp is easier than the tiny Neos.

[Roberta]

If you want to grow your Neos in the traditional moss mound, do some research first. There are some "hidden" features that are critical, such as the "pocket" in the center. If that's missing, they won't thrive. At any rate, don't repot now, wait until you see signs of new growth in the spring.

Personally, I put them in hanging baskets with either bark or sphag, and let the roots go wild - like the Vandas that they are. In the basket, they dry fast, I don't treat them any differently than the rest of my outdoor collection - watering slows down a bit in winter just because things don't dry as fast, for everything. But nothing gets separate "dry" treatment except the Catasetinae.

With regard to light, the Leptotes need a lot more than the Neos. Maybe put the Neos in an east- or west- facing window. And close to the glass, so they get some chill.

Leptotes don't need a seasonal rest, but in general need to dry out between waterings. (I grow them mounted, they're in an area where they get daily watering, but they still dry rapidly)

[Jmoney]

I second what Roberta said. If you put a healthy neo in a ball of loose moss there is a high chance the roots will rot soon. Many years ago I used moss "loosely" and learned the hard way why a lot of people have a love/hate relationship with sphagnum.

I use moss for almost all my non-slipper orchids and do not pot any of them "loose", moss has completely different properties when wrapped loose versus tight.

For traditional neo mossing the central hollow core is essential. Most use some type of plastic cage or inverted net pot. I have seen them sold in small net pots without the hole which may work for commercial purposes but I would not recommend for home growing.

I also agree with Roberta about the basket for some of them. I have an amami type that I forced into a mound, which really is doing everything it can for me to treat it like a big vanda. for many of the named varieties they don't get so hog-wild with root growth and do well in moss mounds.

[Roberta]

The "loose vs tight" for sphagnum doesn't have one "right" answer. It depends on the rest of the conditions - pot type, watering frequency and technique. Whatever medium, the goal is the same - humid air in root zones for epiphytes, air + moisture for the more terrestrial types like Paphs.

For myself (under my conditions) I use sphag mostly in baskets so there is rapid drying. And it's loose, becomes tighter as roots take over. The approach works for me, likely not so much for people who are growing indoors.

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by Roberta

If you want to grow your Neos in the traditional moss mound, do some research first. There are some "hidden" features that are critical, such as the "pocket" in the center. If that's missing, they won't thrive.

Yes I looked at a video from Orchids Limited and it looks like you ball up some moss, puting that directly under the plant and it's roots like you're giving the plant a cushion to sit on, then wrap the moss around the plant and the "pocket" is the bit that's under that balled up moss. The other way was draping moss over the top of a bottle of water, sticking the plant and it's roots through the moss into the hole of the water bottle then wrapping moss around that, so the "pocket" is, again, right under the plant.

So both are like a mound with a cave in the middle.

Originally Posted by Roberta

At any rate, don't repot now, wait until you see signs of new growth in the spring.

Oh yea, it's going to chill in what it's in now until spring.

Originally Posted by Roberta

Personally, I put them in hanging baskets with either bark or sphag, and let the roots go wild - like the Vandas that they are. In the basket, they dry fast, I don't treat them any differently than the rest of my outdoor collection - watering slows down a bit in winter just because things don't dry as fast, for everything. But nothing gets separate "dry" treatment except the Catasetinae.

I kind of like that idea if I ever get some hybrids like Lou Sneary or regular Vandas. I just really like the moss mounds for these named Neos and the pots you use for that.

Originally Posted by Roberta

With regard to light, the Leptotes need a lot more than the Neos. Maybe put the Neos in an east- or west- facing window. And close to the glass, so they get some chill.

Leptotes don't need a seasonal rest, but in general need to dry out between waterings. (I grow them mounted, they're in an area where they get daily watering, but they still dry rapidly)

Yea that Leptotes I have is young at didn't like being shipped. It's popping out new leaves, though. It's given me the least trouble, lol.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Jmoney

I second what Roberta said. If you put a healthy neo in a ball of loose moss there is a high chance the roots will rot soon. Many years ago I used moss "loosely" and learned the hard way why a lot of people have a love/hate relationship with sphagnum.

I have other plants that aren't orchids in sphagnum so I don't mind it too much.

For this plant, I didn't pack it tight because the pot it's in doesn't have any holes on the side, just the bottom, so I want air to be able to get in between the moss. I set the plant on a packing peanut and draped moss around that, nothing crazy.

---------- Post added at 12:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

The "loose vs tight" for sphagnum doesn't have one "right" answer. It depends on the rest of the conditions - pot type, watering frequency and technique.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the plastic neo pots are the holes in the sides to help with air flow around the roots/moss mound?

I know the traditional clay ones can be a slightly more shallow, but that's because you kind of just set the bottom of the mound in the pot and the mound really sticks out the top.

I think some might have more depth but have a drainage hole in the bottom.