Drought tolerant Vandas for Mediterranean conditions?

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Hey everyone,

I would've posted this in the Vanda sub, but there are three!

Let me preface my question with: I know, I know, I know. They don't like to dry out, they don't like to be potted, they don't like wet media for long, they don't like to be soaked in a bucket once a week as their only watering...

But if you would entertain my question...

Is there any Vanda that could sustain Mediterranean conditions without being watered daily?

The genus is a bit overwhelming to me, especially since some plants that I didn't think were Vandaceous are now classified within Vanda, like Neofinetia falcata or Ascocenda. So in this vastness, I wonder if any of the "classic" big vandas with feet-long roots could work in the "soak once a week in a bucket" setup whilst mainly staying dry the rest of the week. Or if anyone has found a workaround. I grow in an apartment with either LEDs or windowsill with NW exposure and humidity fluctuating between 40-60% year-round. I do have several plants that were "impossible" to grow indoors, doing just fine or even thriving... Finding workarounds and tricks to give them just enough to keep them afloat. The same goes for "easy" plants that were supposed to thrive in windowsills and neglect and that I managed to kill... I acknowledge that each plant is different and an individual, and sometimes you manage to kill one while its clone is your most vigorous plant, and you just need to live with that.

[Roberta]

Orchids are quite adaptable, and there are workarounds that make it possible to give them enough of what they need short of what they would ideally want. But there are limits. For an orchid (or any other plant) to be drought-tolerant, it needs to have a means for storing water to get it through the dry periods. Pseudobulbs are, of course, the most straightforward adaptation. Or succulent leaves. Semi-terrestrial or lithophytic growth habit can help, because the ground and cracks in rocks can hold moisture. Which brings us to Vandas, especially the large ones. What do they have that could help them get through "drought" ? They have thick roots with lots of velamin, but they have evolved to also need a lot of air around those roots - which means that they dry out fast. And the big ones, especially, have a lot of surface area - which leads to water loss. So we may have come to an impasse with regard to those. Little ones (like the Neos, or Sarcochilus) don't need as much air around the roots as the big ones (and lend themselves to growing in media) and the smaller surface area means that they don't dry quite as fast. But otherwise, you are up against evolution... they have evolved in climates with frequent rain and high humidity all year around, so they never encountered a need for storing water for long periods of time.

Some of the big Angraecums might be more tolerant (like eburneum and sesquipedale) Eburneum especially does sometimes encounter drier seasons (not "dry" but drier) In nature, they grow in damp, mossy areas sometimes (as opposed to hanging free), so lend themselves to growing in pots with media more than Vandas.

[Gardening in WM]

Mateo you are still a new orchid grower from what I can see and although there is plenty of great information to be found on this forum you will not become a more experienced grower believing absolutely everything you read here or believing that is what all growers do.
The best information usually comes from talking to other growers that do not use online Forums. Even if you join facebook groups, watch hours of youtube tutorials you might think, ok now I know as much as everyone else but you'd be wrong...
Anyway I don't mean to berate any grower, just to point out there is far more to discover still about growing orchids and you need to be prepared to open your eyes more than just trusting social media for your information if you want to become a better grower
You might wonder why social media isn't as all knowing as Google when it comes to growing orchids and unfortunately that is a question I cannot answer but watch missorchidgirl's mythbusting series just to get an idea of how many social media facts about growing orchids might be myths instead.

Everyone has different approaches. There is no right way to grow them.

So the main reason I have written all this is because
a) they don't like to be potted: all of my vanda's are potted
b)they don't like wet media for long: I would not make this distinction for vanda's myself
c) they don't like to be soaked in a bucket once a week as their only watering... I have seen many youtubers do just this for years and get excellent results. Best example would be bumblebee orchids

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Originally Posted by Gardening in WM

Mateo you are still a new orchid grower from what I can see and although there is plenty of great information to be found on this forum you will not become a more experienced grower believing absolutely everything you read here or believing that is what all growers do.

Hey Gardening_in_WM, albeit patronizing, I appreciate your answer.

I think that it is useful to contrast information between growers, and it is appropriate to angle a question in a way that will get you a helpful answer from the crowd you're addressing. We can all agree that every situation implies that YMMV, but I don't find the need to express that I've asked the same question to my buddy the grower from the orchid society, or searched it on Youtube, or through articles on Orchid Digest or the AOS magazine. I want to get people's honest suggestions and then make up my mind after understanding where they're coming from and translating their POV into my growing conditions.

Perhaps the sarcasm in my "I know, I know, I know" comment was missed. My intent was to request suggestions from those that had something else to suggest. However, every grower on this forum (some of the most helpful people, btw) always acknowledges "Under my conditions."

I know all of the youtubers you've mentioned and, for example, I think Miss Orchid Girl is an excellent example of giving absolutely terrible advice, and some of her debunked myths were actually not myths at all under my conditions... But of course, she has a need to put out content and disingenuously persuade her followers to buy re-labeled fertilizer from RepotMe that costs 4 times more than at any other supplier (plus irrationally high shipping!). Most people on this forum just simply share their experience without getting anything in return other than the gratification of helping out a fellow grower, which I appreciate.

Finally, I also appreciate your myth-busting list, but I can't say I found it helpful because not only do you not mention longevity (do your Vandas live for 30 years or for 3?), but don't specify how you reached the conclusion that your setup would work for you. Which makes it impossible for me to translate your rationale into my growing conditions.

---------- Post added at 09:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Roberta

Some of the big Angraecums might be more tolerant (like eburneum and sesquipedale) Eburneum especially does sometimes encounter drier seasons (not "dry" but drier) In nature, they grow in damp, mossy areas sometimes (as opposed to hanging free), so lend themselves to growing in pots with media more than Vandas.

Thank you! Aaah sometimes one hopes that some grower in ABC had created a hybrid with XYZ in the parentage that could survive a nuclear bomb... or the Santa Ana winds without getting watered

[Roberta]

Alas, some limits there... I don't think Angraecum is all that closely related to Vanda. Pretty certain that they don't interbreed. Too bad... would love to see a colorful Angraecum or a Vanda with a long nectary.

That REALLY drought tolerant Vanda? Maybe with a Eulophia... or a cactus. Some serious gene-editing required there there, no longer can we say "Never".

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Originally Posted by Roberta

That REALLY drought tolerant Vanda? Maybe with a Eulophia... or a cactus. Some serious gene-editing required there there, no longer can we say "Never".

I'm sure Fred Clarke is leaving that for his Spring 2038 list. Stay tuned.

[Roberta]

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Originally Posted by MateoinLosAngeles

I'm sure Fred Clarke is leaving that for his Spring 2038 list. Stay tuned.

Jokes aside – I just checked on your website and see that you have several vandas outside as opposed to the GH. Do you just use the GH mainly for temperature control as opposed to humidity? Do you have them under the automatic sprinkler watered every day?

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by MateoinLosAngeles

Jokes aside – I just checked on your website and see that you have several vandas outside as opposed to the GH. Do you just use the GH mainly for temperature control as opposed to humidity? Do you have them under the automatic sprinkler watered every day?

There are Vandas, and then there are Vandas... Most of the big-flowered, colorful hybrids hand significant amounts of V. sanderiana in their backgrouns - a warm-grower. V. coerulea, the other major parent is more cold-tolerant, but it's still marginal. So the big hybrids mostly need to be in the GH, at least in winter. Temperature as well as humidity. I generally don't grow those, when I have had them, not great longevity. (And besides, they take up too much room in a very small and crowded greenhouse) I am in love with the more cold-tolerant Vandas and Vandaceous... things like V. tricolor and Renanthera imschootiana, as well as a bunch of the smaller species. Those come from higher elevations, and so can handle the winter chill. For watering, my sprinkler system to the rescue (so I can take a vacation)... the Vandas, and a lot of other things (like mounted Pleurothallids) get daily watering in summer, every other day in winter but the default is daily. They'll put up with low humidity as long as they get that good and frequent soaking. When the infamous Santa Ana winds blow and the humidity plunges to single digits, I am usually outside with the hose giving everybody an extra bath especially if it's hot. So... at my house, they don't see drought.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

To the original question…

I know there are a few Vandas that have leaves that are more succulent than most. A couple of them being Vanda lilacina and Vanda testacea. These would tolerate less water than the ones with leaves that are not as succulent.

In regards to whether a Vanda can be potted - yes, they can. I grow mine in pots. Some of them are in traditional opaque plastic pots. Some I have in plastic slotted pots. I also grow them in medium to large grade coconut husk chips. I’ve found this method makes watering them convenient for me. I believe that this advice would be fairly reliable for you since we are generally in the LA County area.

I’ve found it extremely inefficient to grow Vandas without a pot where I live.

In the past, I’ve grown Vandas potted for several years (I think the longest grown was about 8 - 10 yrs, maybe longer, I don’t recall - it was my blooming sized Vanda roeblingiana). I’ve posted about my Vanda roeblingiana before, perhaps you can look it up to see how long ago it was. This plant passed in 2019, I think…. With my current group of Vandas some have been grown in pots for anywhere around 3 months, while others have been grown this way for about 1 year. All have new root growth. I currently have 4 different species of Vandas potted.