What exactly does "cool intermediate" means in cultivation outside of natural habitat

[PuiPuiMolcar]

After a few reading around the web, I find that most of the common technique for those who live in intermediate climate like mine is to have a drop in temperature at night if my days are hot. Ultimately my main question is probably how much am I able to get away with the night/day temp differences, if I were to keep my cool growers mild enough not too cold or too hot year round I plan to keep my grow tent for the cooler orchids but I have no control over night temperature. I plan to keep species like cuthbertsonii, smaller draculas, lepanthes, and rhynchostele.

I know orchids environment varies from genus to genus but I can't understand what difference does that make once they are placed under our care and our attempt to get around their natural habitat. We dont have 100% fog through out the day or 24/7 of fresh running water to exchange oxygen to the root unless you have a very controlled set up. My outdoor can provide the night/day differences but it is too dry for me to keep them hydrated, and I'm afraid that bud will blast if the grow tent is too warm and humid. Growing orchids sometime feels like I'm trying to keep them alive enough until I can get them through the bad season just to hope that they'll do well enough in the good season to weather the next bad season.

[Roberta]

Functionally (like for deciding what I can grow) when I see C/I, I look at the minimum temperature that the species encounters in nature, and allow a few more degrees F because they can acclimate and tolerate a slightly wider range. Look also at the maximum temperature that they are likely to encounter. (That's the big difference between "C/I" and "C") The truly cool ones may resent summer temperatures. For me, that is, I am rather certain, the reason that I can't grow Den. cuthbertsonii. It is fine with winter lows near freezing, but it resents summer highs above 75 or at worst 80 deg F, especially if nights are above 68 deg F. Also why I don't do well with most Miltoniopsis... they want a range of about 50 deg F to 80 deg F... narrow range in both directions.



So use those letters as an indicator, but do your research on habitat. As an example, I find that species that grow between about 1200 m and 2500 m or so do fine for me outside. Lower, and winters tend to be too cool, higher and summers tend to be too warm. Species that grow over a range of elevations are likely to be more adaptable. Then, be bold and experiment. You won't win every time, but you will find where you can get away with pushing the limits.

My big "AHA" moment was on a trip to Ecuador. I had been under the impression that the climate at higher elevations was like 62 deg F to 70 deg F. Something that I couldn't manage. Then, I went into the living room of the owner of Ecuagenera, and saw a lot of big, happy standard Cymbidiums blooming well. I did know how to grow and bloom Cymbidiums - they need a substantial temperature differential between day and night to bloom. Well, if Ecuagenera could grow and bloom Cyms at their Gualaceo nursery (about 2200 m) then by golly, I could grow a range of Ecuadoran species in my back yard. And I do.

[Lil Duck]

To me, cool intermediate means night temperatures between 50 and 65 degrees, it has no relation to humidity. Depending on how close you are to the ocean, high nighttime humidity will be enough although I would definitely bring any cloud forest orchids in if the humidity gets below 35% (looking at you santa ana winds).

[Roberta]

When the Santa Ana winds blow and drop the humidity to single digits, I just water once or twice during the day, and especially give the orchids a good drink in the evening when the lower temperature slows evaporation. They will put up with very much less than ideal conditions for short periods.

[estación seca]

Most cool to intermediate plants tolerate higher than ideal daytime temperatures if they get very cool nights. Many orchids open their pores at night rather than in daytime, and high night temperatures inhibit this. When deciding whether I can grow something in my warm climate I pay more attention to night temperature requirements.

[PuiPuiMolcar]

thank you everyone, I guess there's really no easy route other then to just find out. I can help the orchid get through the occasional 90+ degree by putting them in my grow tent then leave them out in the night to cool them down, but that would such a hassle to do it everyday.

the reason that I can't grow Den. cuthbertsonii

I will try to get my hand on a cuthbertsonii hydbrid and journal it down to you since we're technically neighbor in climate.

[Roberta]

The various Den. cuthbersonii hybrids with some of the warmer growing species (such as glomeratum and laevifolium) yield plants whose flowers look - and are long lasting - a lot like cuthbertsonii, but are not fussy about our summer weather. The "cuthberts for the rest of us".

Don't over-think the temperature thing. Pick orchids that will tolerate the conditions that you have, don't move them around. When you get a different set of conditions you can get other types. But I think that you do have some space to grow outdoors. You should seriously consider utilizing the excellent conditions that Mother Nature gives you for free. (We are very fortunate to live in a temperate climate that is fantastic for lots of orchids. Our summer nights are a lot cooler than those that ES has to deal with ) It's not as controlled as a grow tent, but doesn't need to be - I think that the variations due to seasons, day/night, weird weather etc. actually facilitate blooming. A friend, who is a superb outdoor grower fairly nearby, summarizes it well - The climate is nearly perfect, just add water and subtract sunlight. We are really fortunate! There are few places in the US that lend themselves to year-around outdoor growing, we happen to live in one of them. (The others are Hawai'i and southern Florida)

[DirtyCoconuts]

i have also let the tag labels give me base line. i wont buy a C/I orchid, unless is have a spot for it inside or in a tank, they will die outside here in a year or two. That does not mean all intermediate growers will make it here by any stretch but i know to "keep it moving" when i see that 'cold' designation.

to your point, the year makes such a difference that i have had some last 1-2 years but then it hits a stretch of something (too hot, not humid enough, too much rain) and poof

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by DirtyCoconuts

i have also let the tag labels give me base line. i wont buy a C/I orchid, unless is have a spot for it inside or in a tank, they will die outside here in a year or two. That does not mean all intermediate growers will make it here by any stretch but i know to "keep it moving" when i see that 'cold' designation.

This reminds me of a Sobralia xantholeuca that I ordered from a vendor that we know and love, delivered to me at a show... It is in the same group as Sob macratha, grows well in my (sometimes chilly) back yard. I was surprised to see that the tag said "I", was expecting "C/I" ... I asked the vendor, is there something about this plant that I should know? I plan to grow it outdoors. The vendor's comment... "If I put a "C" on the tag I can't sell them in Florida" ... That's when I learned that "I" means "Inquire" ... it could be truly Intermediate (night temps not below 50 deg F/10 deg C), it could be a relatively new acquisition (many orchids can grow under those intermediate conditions, a good place to start while learning what the plant will actually tolerate) or it could mean that the vendor just wants to be able to sell these in a warmer climate - which the plant can also tolerate.

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Originally Posted by Roberta

This reminds me of a Sobralia xantholeuca that I ordered from a vendor that we know and love, delivered to me at a show... It is in the same group as Sob macratha, grows well in my (sometimes chilly) back yard. I was surprised to see that the tag said "I", was expecting "C/I" ... I asked the vendor, is there something about this plant that I should know? I plan to grow it outdoors. The vendor's comment... "If I put a "C" on the tag I can't sell them in Florida" ... That's when I learned that "I" means "Inquire" ... it could be truly Intermediate (night temps not below 50 deg F/10 deg C), it could be a relatively new acquisition (many orchids can grow under those intermediate conditions, a good place to start while learning what the plant will actually tolerate) or it could mean that the vendor just wants to be able to sell these in a warmer climate - which the plant can also tolerate.

Slightly off topic. Roberta, I've been meaning to inquire how this recent weather anomaly has affected your outdoor plants? Snow is very unusual there. My being from the Central Valley, I'm familiar.