kelpak and physan 20 in the eu?

[OrchidNut555]

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

Wow.
Welcome to First Rays!

i expected a reaction like this. seems whenever someone critises the behaviour of a pro grower, we get hit with how good they are

to clarify: i'm not talking down his skills or implying he doesn't know what he's talking about. i'm talking about pushing his view.

Plenty of people do fertilizer like i said. it works for plenty of people, but the moment you say it here, you get told it's incorrect and you get told what you should be doing instead. it's very condescending. i've seen orchids grown succesfully in so many ways, but people just don't seem to stop critising it if it isn't the way the majority does it. You should know what i'm talking about, i've seen how you grew cattleyas in semi hydro that are looking great but you got a lot of negative comments on reddit. props to you for doing that, by the way.

my point is...his way of growing? totally fine. he did his research and does it the way he does it and it works. that's wonderful and admirable. It just seems that when another approach is named, that isn't his way, that person gets told it's meaningless, etc. it just feels very elitist. not everyone is looking to grow orchids at maximum pro level, besides this person seemed new to orchids..let's just keep it simple then, no? it works, after all.

as long as the plants thrive it's fine, right? People have done that in so many different ways...no need to tell others off. there is no one and done way to grow orchids.

[Ray]

ON555 - My apologies. My commentary was not meant as an attack, it was meant as a different view. I had hoped the apology up front would make that clearer than it apparently did.

Over the time I've been growing and participating in these forums, I've seen some remarkably odd-, and some down right ridiculous ideas about what proper culture should be. Other than disagreeing, I don't believe I said yours fit either of those.

[İlyas06]

Thank you for your valuable comments. I decided to buy orchid focus bloom and will use it with HB101.

[Ray]

For the record, OrchidNut555 and I have “buried the hatchet” in private conversations.

Let’s move on.

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Let us know if you're able to buy Kelpak in Europe from Besgrow I have a house in Europe and visit frequently. It would be great to know of reliable ways of getting the product there.

As for Physan 20, it is a quaternary ammonium product with the following concentrations of active ingredients:

- n-alkyl (60% C14, 30% C16, 5%C12, 5% C18) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride......10%

- n-alkyl (68% C12, 32% C14) dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chloride......10%

In the US there's a generic version of Physan 20 manufactured by Southern AG called SA-20 Disinfectant.

The only product I've found in the EU that contains quats labeled for plants is a French product named "KleenGrow."

My understanding is that most European companies stopped using quats as the EU imposed a very strict limit on the maximum amount of residue of 0.1 ppm. Being practically impossible to stay under this limit in commercial agriculture, the use of quats seems to be out of favor in the EU. However, I've found some cleaning products that seem to use quats as their active ingredient.

I would certainly use a product that is labeled for plants only.

I also will say that after using Physan 20 for a long time, I haven't seen any benefits compared to using household tricks like cinnamon and alcohol.

[Ray]

In my opinion, Physan is really better suited as a disinfectant for the growing area than as a curative, and prior to using that, I simply used one cup of liquid chlorine bleach per gallon.

I was skeptical at first, but I am now convinced that regular treatment of plant probiotics will go a long way toward preventing most infections.

[MateoinLosAngeles]

Originally Posted by Ray

In my opinion, Physan is really better suited as a disinfectant for the growing area than as a curative, and prior to using that, I simply used one cup of liquid chlorine bleach per gallon.

I was skeptical at first, but I am now convinced that regular treatment of plant probiotics will go a long way toward preventing most infections.

I emailed you a few weeks ago regarding a Phal that developed Erwinia after an inappropriate watering and an unusually humid and cold night. I treated by soaking for 24h in Quantum and even though the plant has seen better days (I cut half of its stem off), it's still alive and doing *fine*

So I would agree with you that Quantum or Inocucor can actually work, and based on the strains they contain, which have been studied against Erwinia, I would even argue that they can potentially serve as treatments and not just prevention, at least for Erwinia.

I haven't had great results with Liquid Copper Fungicide, however, I keep it as a last resort

It's worth pointing that I have two orchids that have never been in touch with a fungicide, ever, only Quantum, Kelpak, and regular waterings. They are the best in my collection.

[Dusty Ol' Man]

Originally Posted by Ray

In my opinion, Physan is really better suited as a disinfectant for the growing area than as a curative, and prior to using that, I simply used one cup of liquid chlorine bleach per gallon.

I was skeptical at first, but I am now convinced that regular treatment of plant probiotics will go a long way toward preventing most infections.

Concerning the area disinfectant use: I use a warm mist humidifier in my grow tent. Lately I have noticed what seems to be algae growth in the tank. I cleaned the tank completely using a bleach solution, but the growth has returned much quicker than before. Do you think Physan 20 would be more effective in stopping this growth? Or am I just going to have to put up with it coming back and doing periodic cleaning of the tank?

[Ray]

I think chlorine bleach would be more effective for cleaning the humidifier.

[estación seca]

Many algae secrete a chemical matrix which keeps chlorine and other things away from the cells, and helps algae adhere to things. I suspect it would keep quaternary ammonium compounds out, too. It can be very difficult to get rid of wall algae. Talk to pool owners.

I suggest really scrubbing your tank for a long time with a higher concentration of bleach, and leaving it soak for a while. If it's glass you can bake it in the oven at 250 F / 120C for an hour.